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saands
April 11, 2002, 06:51 PM
I've been thinking of trying the 9.2x19 in my Makarov ... this is a Mak barrel (9x18) that is reamed an extra 1mm to allow you to use the plentiful supply of reloadable 9x19 brass to make your loads with. Has anyone played around with this? I've read a couple of happy reports on the Makarov.com site, but was looking for more info. I'd be especially interested in reliablility and performance (pet loads would also be nice).

Thanks,
Saands

C.R.Sam
April 11, 2002, 09:27 PM
Interesting......think it would entail a bit more than just extending the chamber a milimeter. Seems that the two cartridges have NO dimensions in common. Mak is larger at the mouth and Luger is larger at the base.

Sam

saands
April 12, 2002, 10:27 AM
C.R.:

The link below is where I got the idea that it might just be that simple ...

http://makarov.com/makacces.html#wildcat

I looked at the drawings in Lee manual and it actually looks like it might be reasonable. The 10mm reamer they call out would give a .3937 chamber, so the .391 at the base of the 9x19 shouldn't be a problem. I haven't measured the chamber of the 9x18 yet, but clearance of 2 or 3 mils seems about right for a slip fit.

As for the mouth of the case ... While the 9x19 is 8 mils smaller (on the ID, at least) BEFORE firing, I'm thinking that once it is fired the 9x19 will be just about perfect to hold the .364 Makarov bullets. If need be, I'll make a die to expand the 9x19 before I use it. Shouldn't take more than an hour on the lathe and since I don't do it for a living, the lathe provides excellent relaxation therapy ;)

C.R.Sam
April 12, 2002, 02:18 PM
Yep. In original post I thought you were talkin about merely extending the Mac chamber by a milimeter. Looks like recutting the entire chamber while lengthening it. Doable.

Sam

Badger Arms
April 12, 2002, 03:27 PM
I ask this question too much... WHY? The Makarov is a blowback pistol that is designed to use the MAXIMUM practical case for a blowback. Sure, you can push it, but why? Why not just buy a 9mm for all the trouble you are going through for an overpowered round in a blowback gun that still won't match 9mm in performance and uses a caliber with a limited bullet selection? I don't understand the logic.

saands
April 12, 2002, 05:35 PM
To explain my logic, with which you need not agree ;) ...

Berry's Mfg sells .364 bullets for the Mak, so they are abundantly available ... For my reloading, then it basically comes down to availability of boxer brass. I have a virtually unlimited supply of 9x19 and the "hassle" of making this conversion is limited to the purchase of a $13 reamer and a $30 (or $50 depending on the material) barrel. All the time messing with it falls in the category of having fun in the shop. I have no intention of boosting the pressures to 9x19 levels as that is well outside the design parameters of this blowback design ... at least as I understand it ... (sidenote ... click here (http://main.baikalinc.ru/eng/prod/baikal442/) for a pic of a Russian Mak in 9x19 from the factory ... I wonder how hard this action is to cycle by hand!). I could trim the 9x19 brass, but I hate trimming and deburring brass, so I'd rather add a custom made expansion die (any excuse to thread something on the lathe gives me a smile, so this "hassle" is actually a plus). I do realize that I could also just buy new starline brass, but that wouldn't keep me off the street, now would it :D
Like I said, you don't have to agree with the logic ...

I was just wondering if anyone here had tried it yet.

Saands

Gewehr98
April 12, 2002, 06:40 PM
Lot less hassle than reaming out a chamber and making a wildcat from 9mm Luger brass.

I don't have a Makarov yet, but I was making 7.62x25 Tokarev for my Czech CZ-52 from .223 Remington brass. Tedious is an understatement. I finally broke down and ordered a bunch of brass from Starline. ;)

C.R.Sam
April 12, 2002, 08:00 PM
Question to wildcatter......"Why ?"
Answer......"You wouldn't understand."

Sam, when 903 cubic inches isn't enough, add a pair of big hairdryers. Q...Why ? A...cause.

Gewehr98
April 12, 2002, 08:51 PM
Hell, I wouldn't be sitting at the bench tonight making up a batch of 6.5-06 and 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnums if I wasn't all googoo about wildcat chamberings.

Sounded to me like Saands' reason for punching out the chamber of his Makarov wasn't to give the pistol more oomph, but to make use of an abundant supply of 9x19 Parabellum brass - kinda bass ackwards from most wildcatter's motives.

I know a fella up at Kennedy Space Center who trims 9x19 to Makarov length, resizes it, then fireforms it for his Makarov. Truly a labor of love.;)

Badger Arms
April 13, 2002, 12:09 AM
Sheez, I still don't understand. Let me be. I'm just going to go back to loading my 400 CorBon and 44 Automag.

KP95DAO
April 13, 2002, 10:10 AM
There are those who say "Why" and those who say "Why not".

saands
April 13, 2002, 07:38 PM
KP95DOA: Amen, brother!

Gewehr98: I never said that I wasn't going to tickle a little more out of the little Mak ;) I did say that I wasn't planning on trying to get a 9x19 out of it, though. There's a LOT of room between the 9x18 and the 9x19 in which to play ... but you still have to respect the limits of safety and the design!

Again, I was just trying to see if someone here had given it a whirl so that I wouldn't have to learn all the lessons myself ... but it sounds like I'm solo on this one.

Saands

sleeping dog
April 16, 2002, 06:48 AM
I just trim the 9x19 brass to 9x18 size, then stuff .365 bullets in it. Is there some simple way to "catch" the flying brass? In an indoor range, the brass bounces off everthing and winds up on the floor with all the other brass.

It's not easy to recover it that way, plus some unsuspecting guy will pick up some of my brass and reload for 9mm. Would that be dangerous?

I don't know why I load this stuff. I don't think it's economical, when you compare to the price of Wolf Mak ammo.

Regards.

saands
April 17, 2002, 10:46 AM
Sleeping Dog:
I just ordered one of Midway's brass catchers. I asked the guy if he had ever used one, and he said no, but they sell a LOT of them. If I remember, I'll post a range report on that item ... it was about $20 IIRC.

Saands

James K
April 17, 2002, 08:51 PM
I know the tendency to want to "soup" things up, but bear in mind that the Mak is still a blowback pistol. Only the slide mass (not the spring) keeps it from opening too soon resulting in a burst case and a very nasty situation (and usually a wrecked gun). This does not mean it is an impossibility, just a caution that simply reaming the chamber is the least of concerns when trying to make a blowback pistol handle pressures more consistent with a locked breech.

BTW, I too would be concerned about someone throwing a hot 9x19 into the gun just because it will fit; again, the result might put a stop to further experimentation, at least with that gun.

Jim

saands
April 18, 2002, 10:07 AM
I'm glad that I started this thread ... it got me to think about the matter before I went out and bought an extra barrel ... thinking is always a good idea. The possibility of someone (probably me or a loved one) inadvertantly firing a hot 9x19 in this gun (especially since there is ammo for that caliber in the house) is what has driven me to the conclusion that a 9.2x19 is not a good idea ... especially if it will be shot regularly, which I'm hoping will be the case. Now ... a 9.2x18.5 ... just kidding ... just kidding. :rolleyes:

Thanks for the input.
Saands