PDA

View Full Version : Longer trigger take up on 870?


bikeguy
April 9, 2002, 03:43 PM
does anyone sell a replacement trigger group or some method to make an 870 trigger feel like a double action trigger (longer take up, heavier pull)? This would be for a gun dedicated to home/self defense is the reason I'm asking. Yes, I know to keep my finger out of the trigger until ready to fire, but in the middle of the night while I'm nice and groggy.........

Dave McC
April 9, 2002, 05:49 PM
Let me get this straight. You want a trigger that's HARDER to shoot well?

You're talking about a bad answer to a non existent problem.Hardware doesn't solve software probs.

The key's training. Train to only put that finger in the trigger guard when you want to shoot. Train to not do so until your target's ID'd. Train to make sure of the target's surrounding area and the backstop.

My Crisis Management 870 has the safety on, the chamber empty, the action locked closed and the mag loaded. I can ready it in a twinkling, and if I can't, I'm too darn "Groggy" to be using a gun anyhow.

(Dismounting from soapbox)...

bikeguy
April 9, 2002, 07:00 PM
Again, I don't disagree with you on any of your points, just your opinions ;) However, I know that one shotgun company (Mossberg maybe?) sells a shotgun with a double action style trigger pull. I think it is a fine idea on a PD shotgun (my carry pistol is a DAO - no problem putting every round in the 8 ring on a police sillouhette at 25 yards). I actually LIKE a DAO trigger (flame on).

I keep my 870 in the same condition you do, except with a snap cap in the chamber (safety off, pull triger, rack it, good to go).

NO amount of training can ready you for the moment when you have to use a gun. And no one would advocate carrying a pistol with a 1 1/2 pound trigger pull and say "train to keep your finger off the trigger". At the distances I would be using the gun, a 6 - 8 pound trigger with a little travel isn't going to make a hill of beans of difference (see above).

An additional concern is that my wife might have to use the gun. She has fired it enough to know that it is loud and kicks like hell on someone her size. She has also drilled with it with snap caps enough to know how to ready it. She also would use it if need be. But the simple fact is that she is not going to practice enough with this gun for me to be comfortable that she would keep her finger off the trigger until the necessary moment in a high stress situation.

Now - simple question, simple answer. Does anyone make this or do this? Does anyone have experience with it?

Don't get me wrong - I'm not going to do anything to the gun that would affect it's reliability for the sake of this. Just wanted to know if it could be/is done.

Dave McC
April 9, 2002, 07:51 PM
Yup, Mossberg maies one model with a DA style trigger. Won't find them in too many places except where lawyers rule instead of tacticians.

As for that snap cap,get rid of it. NO serious folks I know of suggest a sequence that includes pressing the trigger to amke a weapon ready.

As for the spouse, Mrs McC fired a shotgun, once.
She's adamant about not doing so again. OTOH, there's a First Model Trooper here loaded with old duty +P+s that's hers. Shotguns need people with some practice and experience to be effective.

And, some of my carry guns have had sub 4 lb SA pulls. 40 years of handgunning, no NDs yet. Current pet GM snaps right at 4, clean and crisp.

As for your question, nobody makes it. You may find a smith willing and able to add some weight and travel, but expect to get another lecture about it.

bikeguy
April 9, 2002, 08:22 PM
geezz. thanks for the attitude.

as for the snap cap - easier to press the trigger than the release. don't have to move your hand. often I find that the advice of most or even all experts just sometimes doesn't work for me. and ain't that what's important?

over and out.

Dave McC
April 9, 2002, 08:52 PM
Sorry, bikeguy. Why don't you go ask Ayoob, Suarez, Cain or Col Cooper if they advocate pulling the trigger on any weapon as part of a making ready procedure. I think you'll find my attitude is rather mild in comparison.

In fact, I believe the Colonel commented on the Mossberg in his commentaries in the last two eyars or so. You may find his opinion enlightening....

Sundance
April 9, 2002, 09:40 PM
bikeguy...

I am usually pretty big on if it works for you, do it...but you need to rethink and revise your little snap cap trigger pull deal. A little mix up in sequence or a screw up in loading and you have a hole in your floor if you are lucky or yourself or a friend or family member if you are unlucky. That technique is just plain dumb.

Edward429451
April 9, 2002, 10:40 PM
NO amount of training can ready you for the moment when you have to use a gun.

Seriously disagree.



But the simple fact is that she is not going to practice enough with this gun for me to feel comfortable that she would keep her finger off the trigger until the necessary moment in a high stress situation.

(Respectfully), Then dont teach her to pull the trigger when she first picks it up! Dont confuse her by teaching her to pull the trigger when she picks it up and then keeping her finger out of the guard. Learning 'manual of arms' is mighty different with different weapons and can be confusing! The constants must remain (a), finger out of the triggerguard and (b), Watch that muzzle.

Maybe if you taught her to pick it up by the receiver, where her fingers would naturally fall on the bolt release, for unlocking it and quick racking of a shell into the chamber, would be safer. Thats what I learned to do. Remington's bolt release is in kind of a weird location, I always thought Winchester had the better setup there.

Remington does make a scaled down 870 (Youth) in 20 gauge, you know. Perfect for women and youths. Very handy for HD...

Just tryin' to help. Wouldn't want to hear of you all having a 12 ga. accidental discharge in the house.

:eek:

Hemicuda
April 10, 2002, 09:07 AM
this may not be the BEST idea, but it is one that I KNOW some police departments use... (and I use it too, on my 870 MM)

I rack the gun open, and make ABSOLUTELY positive that it is empty...

rack it shut, and aim in safe direction, and pull the trigger... effectively enabling it to be racked immediately...

then I fill the tube with 7 nice HD loads... (00 and 000 buck) and put it in the corner where it goes...

then, if I need it, all I have to do is pick it up, rack it, and fire at will...

no pressing of buttons or pulling of the trigger to fire, and it's still "cruiser ready"


I do not love "dry firing" it, but I also want it cruiser ready... so this is the best idea I can come up with...

labgrade
April 10, 2002, 10:13 AM
Pulling the trigger to release the slide sends chills down my spine.

One of the Big 4 is: All guns are always loaded, no?

There's a slide release on that shotgun for just this purpose. When I pick up an 870, my right hand goes immediately to cover the reciever/trigger group (fingers outside the guard) w/right index on the slide release - left hand grasping slide & ready to pump.

After some amount of practice, release slide/pump, wipe safety, acquire sight picture/finger on trigger & pull. Some actions, such as pumping slide/wiping safety are happening at the same time. Total time to pick up "cruiser ready" shotgun & shoot something = maybe 1.5 seconds, if that.

Practice & training will allow one to "overcome" some "idiosyncracies" of your chosen SD firearm. Unsafe "short cuts" will end up getting someone injured, killed & best bet is a wall/ceiling repair.

Hemicuda,

Suggest making sure the chamber's empty, close slide, safety on, fill magazine tube. Use the slide release - that's what it's for & you give up no time in the least over your method. If nothing else, the slide lock keeps the slide in the exact same place for exact hand placement every time.

Hemicuda
April 10, 2002, 10:40 AM
Labgrade... not a bad idea, except that placing my hand so as to have that finger on the release puts my hand in a very non-natural place in regards to where it needs to be for SHOOTING the gun...

it makes me have to pick it up and add a couple seconds to "swithch around" the hand position...
so instead, I "dry fire" it, to release the slide...

as for keeping the slide in the same place, mine stays in the "full foreward" position when I do this...

if it were to wear in enough that this became a problem, a small rubber band around the forearm would stop this, and would certainly break the second I racked the gun, and not interfere with anything...

that durned mag release is just in a bad spot...

and what about Win 1300's? it's in a far WORSE place yet...

labgrade
April 10, 2002, 10:53 AM
I know nothing about any shotguns except 870s. Having cut my teeth on 'em & using nothing else for 40+ years .... why switch now? ;)

Quick aside. A friend & I were shooting skeet & he offered me his OU SKB to try a couple. I called for a crossing double, hit the first one smartly, attempted to rack the slide & DID almost fall on my face - it's that training thing. :D

If your slide is "pre-released," chances are some day, some where, some aggresive action (such as draggin' it out in the middle of the night to ward off a nightcrawler (no offense to our TFL bud ;) ) is gonna cause that slide not to be where it used to be .... matter of time. I like things to be where I put 'em last.

Too, rubber bands, etc. is another one of those things used to overcome decent training.

I dunno. Use what works for y'all & I'll stick with what works for me.

I would suggest that more time/familiarity with your chosen SD firearm will allow you to "overlook" some of the 870's "shortcomings" & allow you to quickly & effectively employ this fine platform much quicker than you'd ever thought possible.

Many do, & so can you.

Hemicuda
April 10, 2002, 03:10 PM
My first shotgun was an 870 Wingmaster shorty... followed by an 870 Express Mag, and then an 870 Frankengun...

that was over 20 years ago...

I am as familiar as one gets with a gun, and still think the location of the release is not the best...

to each their own...

labgrade
April 10, 2002, 03:23 PM
Different strokes. Yes Sir.

Edward429451
April 10, 2002, 06:26 PM
So whats up with Winchester 1300's? Did they move the slide release to a different location than on the 1200's?

I used to own a 1200, and the slide release was behind the triggerguard and my ring finger would naturally fall on it when grasped pretty much in a firing grip. Much better than the 870...

Hemicuda
April 10, 2002, 07:15 PM
nope, they didn't move it on the 1300's... it's behind the trigger guard... same as on the 1200's...

just seems REALLY weird to me... not a good place, from my point of view... but like above, Diff' strokes!