PDA

View Full Version : Mall Ninja-itis


Torquemada
March 16, 2002, 04:00 AM
Dudes who claim to walk around with 4 guns, 15 spare mags, 22 knives, 3 walking sticks, a sword, 6 attack dogs, pepper spray, CS/CN grenades, a 12-cell flashlight etc. all concealed while wearing Speedos and a windbreaker are full of it.

Just for fun, try this at home (where you won't look as ridiculous):
tape a butter knife to each arm, and one to your boot
a 2-cell cheapie flashlight stuffed in your belt
two 2-lb weights in your pockets/belt (simulates gun/mags)
a couple pens, without using the clips (simulates pepper & keychain-thingie)

Wear it all day while you do normal stuff around the house. You'll probably get fatigued and this junk will get in your way eventually. For females, throw all this crap into a purse PLUS what you carry normally (and you can't put it down all day, EVER). See what I mean?

Kaylee
March 16, 2002, 07:17 AM
Dude...

watch runt_of_the_litter sometime. Ask about any given weapon. She likely has it on her...

How anyone that small can carry that much hardware and not show it amazes me. Seriously, it wouldn't surprise me to learn she's got field artillery stashed in some sorta extra-dimensional space in her pocket.

So of course it can happen. Is is necessary? (what I thought you were asking by your topic title)

Honestly, I'm increasingly thinking not for your average person, most of the time... I usually just make do with a knife most of the time myself. But then hey.. there's always that freak chance of another Luby's.

-K

KSFreeman
March 16, 2002, 08:38 AM
Mall ninjas are full of it but that's why they are mall ninjas.

Pretty bad myself--2 guns, 2 knives, Surefire E2, and cell phone. However, my tailor understands my requirements and that (and buying good holsters) helps tremendously. Now, if I could only find some black wingtips or captoes that allow me to walk up walls!:D

riddleofsteel
March 16, 2002, 10:22 AM
One of the primary challenges of modern CCW craft is to find how much hardware you are comfortable with and can conceal.

I have carried a full size S&W 4006, a backup S&W .38 Centennial, back up mags and speed loaders, a folding knife, pepper gas Kubaton and a mag light.

Then the pendalum swung over to going abroad with only a pocket knife and a 5 shot mini .22 magnum revolver.

Now I carry an MK40 Kahr in a Kramer belt scabbard, extra K40 mag in my front pocket, Gerber E-Z out folder clipped to my front pocket and a Scorpion tactical light on my belt. All of these are carried in complete comfort and concealment even in the hot N.C. summers.

This is my point. What you are uncomfortable with you will eventually stop carrying. What you can not efficently conceal will get you rousted by the local LEO or at worst get you shot FIRST in a bad situation. The exact combination will differ from person to person. While the mall ninja may need an load bearing vest to support his hardware most of us have to suffice with four pockets and a dress belt.

therookie
March 16, 2002, 01:12 PM
You know, I walk around my house all the time with 5 pound weights strapped to my ankles to train for hockey, and I get around fine. An ankle holster, boot knife, etc would definitely be lighter than that....






Unless you're trying to CCW a .454 Casull....

striderteen
March 16, 2002, 03:05 PM
watch runt_of_the_litter sometime. Ask about any given weapon. She likely has it on her...

How anyone that small can carry that much hardware and not show it amazes me. Seriously, it wouldn't surprise me to learn she's got field artillery stashed in some sorta extra-dimensional space in her pocket.


Why do I suddenly find myself thinking of anime? Oh yeah...hammerspace.

geegee
March 17, 2002, 12:42 AM
Your point is well taken, but the flaw in your analogy is that with the right belt, holsters, etc., a lot of weight can be worn with surprising comfort. As was mentioned, after tailoring your pants (I also have my belt loops moved to accomodate a holster), buying a quality carry belt, and making sure the fit isn't sloppy, and you'd be surprised. However, in Texas heat during the summer, a lot of gear gets left at home. geegee

C.R.Sam
March 17, 2002, 12:59 AM
Over thirty years ago I learned from John Bianchi that my normal two full sized guns were just a start.

Just recently: To prove the point that if one wants to carry and puts a little thought into it, they can carry concealed a weapon of nearly any size. I was working with two other instructors for a full day and nobody, not even the instructors, tripped to the fact that I was carryin five wheelguns. All assumed that I had one. At the end of the day I peeled of an I, a J, two Ks and an N frame.

My point is that one need not trade shootability and power for ease of concealability.

Sam....5'6 and 140lbs (ten stone)

Torquemada
March 17, 2002, 01:20 AM
Of course, this depends on YOUR exact situation, but let me attempt to clarify:

Women start with one big strike against them, in that clothing designers are anti-pockets, plus "form fitting" i.e. having to be poured into clothes make concealment difficult. People who wear uniforms CAN'T wear tailored suit coats with them. Windbreakers in 90+ degree weather is automatically suspicious. Short sleeves are pretty much out. Boots and leg holsters are out when wearing shorts.

What you do for employment is important, since it's irresponsible leaving your "arsenal" lying around. I used to have to carry two cellphones (for radio functions) and a pager around, and they took quite a beating as well as snagging on things at the most inopportune times. And I could take them off or wear them however I wanted...

While speculation is nice, reality is that there are two conditions: threat or non-threat. Real life is not a choose-your-adventure game, where you have plenty of time to evaluate different branches. If it's a non-threat, then NOTHING gets pulled out. If it's a threat, go for maximum deterrence/most likely item to remove threat. A "potential" threat DOES NOT EXIST in self defense - you can't draw because you "felt uncomfortable," in fact YOU have become the aggressor.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any situation like this:
1. threat pops up
2. pull out pepper spray, doesn't work/deter/stop threat
3. pull out kubotan, same results
4. pull out ASP/walking stick/sword/cane/etc, same
5. pull out pistol, same
6. pull out cellphone, call for pizza and police to see who shows up first
7. call for airstrike, threat removed.

KISS A cellphone definitely should be carried, and a quality flashlight on a keychain doubles as a kubotan. A pistol if practical, and a spare mag in case there's a problem with the inserted one. Maybe a knife, although a Leatherman-type tool is potentially more useful. Everything else just complicates things, and would best be left in the car or at home or on the rack.

Pete

Joe Demko
March 17, 2002, 09:29 AM
Most days, I get by with one gun. I carry a pocketknife to use as a pocketknife, if i have a gun I'm not going to draw a knife. I also have my keys on a kubotan, but I can't remember the last time i used it for anything but a keychain. Since most armed encounters are over in just a few shots, I don't see the point of carrying multiple guns and reloads for the same. Occasionally, because they are so small and light, I'll add a second gun in the form of a Guardian or P-32, but you guys who carry more stuff CCW than some deputies I know carry on their duty belts amuse me.

Betty
March 17, 2002, 11:20 AM
:D

OK, for those who don't know already, I'm a little over 5 foot tall and weigh in at a mighty 103 pounds.

My normal carry rig as of today is a ParaOrdnance C 6.45 LDA, a spare mag, a NAA MiniMag strapped to my ankle, and anywhere from 1-3 knives, not including the goodies dangling from my keychain. I like my knives, and one's usually for utility, and one is usually for "other". And I still carry my ASP once in awhile. That's not alot of stuff.

For kicks, I carried as much as I could on me for one day, just to see if I could. I think I ended up with:
K40 (bellyband),
a Taurus 617 (same bellyband),
the NAA Mini (in mag pocket in bellyband),
a P32 & extra mag(ankle holster),
my 16" ASP (tucked in bellyband),
a Benchmade AFCK (clipped to pants),
a MOD Ladyhawk (clipped),
a speedloader (in extra pocket in bellyband),

- all on my body with NO belt.

I work at a nice office and I wore stretchy black pants with no pockets and a light top covering at least 5" below the waist. No jacket, and it was warm out. The secret? A bellyband with extra pockets. And you couldn't see a thing.

Skunkabilly
March 17, 2002, 01:28 PM
Runt, I have 5 pounds on ya :D

David Park
March 17, 2002, 09:01 PM
I carry a variety of weapons, but my plan is not "if the pepper spray doesn't work, go for the gun, and if that fails go for the knife." I like a variety of options for a variety of scenarios:

Accosted in the parking lot - OC spray on keychain is already in my hand, so that's my go-to tool. If it's just an aggressive beggar, the spray should be enough, otherwise I can spray with one hand while going for the gun with the other.

Restricted movement - if an attacker manages to get in close and pin the gun arm, I have a weak-side knife as a backup.

Deep concealment - if someone gets the drop on me and empties my pockets (maybe a hostage situation), I still have a neck knife.

I carry a lot, but I believe it's justified by the crime level in my area. I'm actually planning to add more, mainly survival tools like a mini first-aid kit and maybe a seatbelt cutter or rescue knife(maybe ankle carry). How much you carry really does depend on your comfort level. I just started carrying a handgun last year, but I've been stuffing my pockets with various gear since middle school.

BamBam-31
March 18, 2002, 05:08 AM
I carry a small, over the shoulder travel bag (sort of like a fanny pack but bigger) everywhere I go. I call it my "Tactical Satchel."

Contents:
Glock 19 + extra mag = 30 rounds of lead salad for BG to eat.
Palm Pilot.
Maglite.
Cell phone.
Wallet.
Pens.
NRA membership card.
Bandaids (for aforementioned BG).

Sure, I get the occasional "Hee-hee, he's wearing a purse!" comment, but I just smile (and for an altogether different reason). :rolleyes:

Also have pager in left pocket, Benchmade AFCK in right. Swiss Army knife attached to keychain. All carried daily with relative ease and comfort.

Downright scary how easy it is to get in and out of places with all this stuff. And I'm one of the good guys. Makes you wonder what the BGs can get away with if they put their minds to it....

Hemicuda
March 18, 2002, 11:02 AM
Well, I usually carry a Beretta 8040f Mini-Cougar (.40 cal) in a Galco Jak-Slide belt holster, and just the one mag (8 rounds, + 1 in the pipe)

and a Leatherman, and a 4" crescent wrench in a belt pouch, and a Gerber Gator-Mate in another pouch...

Flashlights aren't too much of a worry, because I have night sights, and EXCELLENT night vision... (far better than average)

I kinda figure that if it takes more then the 9 rounds of .40 S&W I have, then I screwed up anyway!

KSFreeman
March 18, 2002, 12:31 PM
Hemi, please remember Rule #4. Just because you can see your sights doesn't mean you can see your intended target (unless you have ultravision then we need to get you to a medical research center)!

The safety rules apply in a fight as well as at the square range. Good reason to carry a light.

Hemicuda
March 18, 2002, 02:49 PM
I have practiced night shooting under as little as a sliver of moon, on a 25 yard bullseye.

I can hit a 6" cirfcle at that range, under these light conditions EVERY time...

if it's TRULY pitch black, I'll just hole up and wait for the BG with a light to come to me...

my night vision IS good enough that any time I need to be shooting, I can...

as for target identification, I own a house, in the middle of nowhere, on top of a hill, where I own the surrounding FENCED and GATED 20 acres...

FRIENDS know to come in to the house ANNOUNCING themselves... (usually with the horn)

ANYONE sneaking around inside the house does not belong there, and therefore must need shooting...

Hemicuda
March 18, 2002, 02:50 PM
and, BTW, since I have YET to see these rules posted in order, I am not quite sure which rule #4 might be...

I KNOW gun safety, but what is rule #4 (and No's 1,2, and 3) for that matter?



(Edited to add): the "safety" link above will not open for me for some reason... as a matter of fact, none of the links at the top will open for me...

Jake 98c/11b
March 18, 2002, 03:49 PM
I believe #4 is know your target, also includes know what is in line with your target and what is beyond. While I am loathe to mention it, the jury will not be able to see through your eyes (they will not know of your visual acuity) but they would be more willing to trust your judgmant if you used a light.

Hemicuda
March 18, 2002, 03:56 PM
ok... inside MY OWN house (I live alone), at night, in the dark, uninvited, and sneaking around. Lemme see... enough reason for me... shoot the idiot!

next idea... a light makes a FINE target, if the BG has a gun... and the idea of giving the idiot something to shoot at does not excite me...

next one: if I'm NOTin my home, I'm in my vehicle... which makes for either easy flight (choice #1) or fight... How many grains is a Dodge Ram 4X4?


next idea... if I can see a black 6" bullseye @ 25 yards, in low light, then I can alsosee what is beyond it...

KSFreeman
March 18, 2002, 04:46 PM
Hemi, just using my own experience on cases I've worked. The idea of shooting a drunk 15 year girl who stumbled into the wrong house is with me today and forever. Your house is NOT a freefire zone contrary to what the GSCs think. Identify your target.

As for the rules:

1. All guns are ALWAYS loaded;
2. Never point the muzzle at anything you are willing to destroy;
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on target and you are willing to shoot;
4. Know your target and backstop.

The rules always apply--in the gunshop, on the square range, in a fight.

A fight is not what you want it to be, it just is. You may not fight in your house. One may have to fight on unfamiliar ground where you are uncertain of who is foe and who is friend and what they are doing, see, e.g., Diallo. Bring a light; it may be dark.

Plus, you can look cool when someone needs it (I've also heard young, nubile women like guys who carry lights around).:D

Hemicuda
March 18, 2002, 04:56 PM
Well, the rules willand do apply... but like i stated,my HOME is the only place that I do not have light... (the truck or Jeep both have headlights, and there are streetand parking lot lights everywhere in town...)

as fjr the drunk 15 year old stumbling into my place... she'd have to climb over a gate, or over a 5'tall barbwire fence, then walk a few hundred yards of unfamiliar driveway, and then break down a steel door with a deadbolt, to "wander in"... at this point, she deserves to be shot, as she is DEFINITELY a threat...

Hemicuda
March 18, 2002, 04:56 PM
Well, the rules willand do apply... but like i stated,my HOME is the only place that I do not have light... (the truck or Jeep both have headlights, and there are streetand parking lot lights everywhere in town...)

as for the drunk 15 year old stumbling into my place... she'd have to climb over a gate, or over a 5'tall barbwire fence, then walk a few hundred yards of unfamiliar driveway, and then break down a steel door with a deadbolt, to "wander in"... at this point, she deserves to be shot, as she is DEFINITELY a threat...

KSFreeman
March 18, 2002, 05:09 PM
What if the truck or Jeep is kaput or you need to walk somewhere? What if you are outside the city limits of your town? What if you are not at your house? What if your GF left the gate and door open and the UPS man needs a signature? Et al, ad naseum.

Just what exactly is that 15 year old girl doing that she needs to be set on fire? Maybe you should ID her with your light and attempt verbal compliance before tempting the Prosecuting Attorney?

"Don't play the what if game; play the I am losing game!" Clint Smith.

Hemicuda
March 18, 2002, 06:01 PM
Truck and Jeep both HAVE flashlights... GF does not have a key to the gate,

UPS does NOT enter the house... they ring the bell/knock...

the UPS guy OR the 15 year old are BOTH illegally INSIDE my house, and had to make a VERY definite effort to BE in the house...

To get inside my house, if I do not let you in, is a HELLUVA accomplishment, and is DELIBERATE... anyone in there who's not invited is a BG... and has to be MEANING to do harm to me and mine...

Carry24x7
March 19, 2002, 03:55 PM
Can't enter my home without breaking in, therefore I already instantly know you - you're the guy that just got shot.

If its the middle of the afternoon, broad daylight, and you brought me a pizza for advertising you're still shot, but I'm eating the pizza before I call the cops.

In South Florida its not a problem to carry a piece IWB-MoB under a t-shirt and a pocket gun. I do it frequently, its not a problem.

ronin308
March 21, 2002, 01:49 PM
KSFreeman- "I've also heard young, nubile women like guys who carry lights around." C'est vrai mon ami! I've picked up countless chicks with my E2! ;)

KSFreeman
March 21, 2002, 03:47 PM
Ronin, yeah, chicks like a guy who follows rule #4 and is not in prison from the criminal proceedings or broke because of the civil trial!:D

You pick up chicks? I thought you were spoken for? If not, can we go to Harry's. You can introduce me as the OLDER brother to the young hotties.

Futo Inu
March 21, 2002, 04:40 PM
Yeah, a couple years back I was looking at a Bianchi factory color holster catalog, and it showed two pictures of John Bianchi - One with him in a white tuxedo, looking pretty normal with a teensy bulge or two here and there under the tux if one looked closely. Then the next pics shows him with the jacket off - ol' boy was concealing 32 (that's thirty-two!) handguns on him at the same time, between pockets, ankles, shoulder holsters, sobs, etc. Coo...

ronin308
March 21, 2002, 05:07 PM
KSFreeman- Really I don't pick up chicks...I wuz just teasing...I have a nice, beautiful fiancee who buys me guns so I'm set :) I don't think you'll have a problem getting chicks at Harry's. Just wear a shirt that lists your annual income and you'll be big pimping! ;)

Hemicuda
March 21, 2002, 05:46 PM
KSFreeman... "Ronin, yeah, chicks like a guy who follows rule #4 and is not in prison from the criminal proceedings or broke because of the civil trial!"

like I said, I CAN see... so I'm not violating rule #4...

and if they are in my house, it's illegal, and they are breaking and entering, presumably with the idea of doing great bodily harm...


also, if they're in the house, then the "R-Panel" closed cell foam and double 3/4" OSB walls are the backdrop,so that's pretty tight...

KSFreeman
March 22, 2002, 07:49 AM
Hemi, I'm glad you trust your ultravision. Sadly not everyone can see in the dark.:(

Your house is not a free fire zone despite the bromides of the gunshop commandos. Don't forget that self-defense is an "affirmative defense" meaning you can claim all you wish but the prosecutor can still come after you, check local listings for likelihood. Further, the civil side is expensive--those darn lawyers.

Be careful. Know your target. Watch 6. High Alert. Blah, blah, blah......

Besides, we want you around so Ronin and I can borrow stuff from you at skul.:D

KSFreeman
March 23, 2002, 12:12 PM
I go off on tangents. Mne zhal, Erick.

Just call me the wet blanket on GSC "kill `em all" polemics!:D Comes with the territory.:barf:

Tamara
March 24, 2002, 02:28 AM
Dudes who claim to walk around with 4 guns, 15 spare mags, 22 knives, 3 walking sticks, a sword, 6 attack dogs, pepper spray, CS/CN grenades, a 12-cell flashlight etc. all concealed while wearing Speedos and a windbreaker are full of it.

I carry at least 2 (or sometimes 3) guns, a reload or two, always two knives (Commander/Sebenza sized, usually), and various other odds and ends. Had a bad experience with pepper spray (It incapacitated my attacker. For all of maybe two seconds.) so I usually don't tote OC any more, although I know I should.

Spectre
March 26, 2002, 04:06 PM
I have carried as many as 3 firearms (.40, 9mm, and .32), two knives, a flashlight, a microlight, and a cell phone, as well as SBA. (I only carried all that once, as I kept worrying about what the police would say about all the hardware, if I had to employ it!) Most often, in the past year or two, I have contented myself with a single firearm and knife, and often a reload.

Sam, I sold my beloved Glock 23 right before I left for ITB, but I've been carrying my 3" 657 when packing since I've been back. I'm your height, but the scale today tells me I have gained 16 lbs on you- fortunately, some of it's in the right places, so my N frame is actually quite concealable now, thank god.

Can't enter my home without breaking in, therefore I already instantly know you - you're the guy that just got shot. Heh, heh, heh.