ATVs annoy me

HerrJaegermeister · November 17, 2001, 10:23 PM

There is nothing more annoying than watching someone from my tree stand drive an ATV a quarter mile to their deer stand. They are noisy and disturb the woods, even more so than a pickup.

People, use your feet and simply hike into the woods. That bulging thing hanging over your belts is blubber caused by laziness and overconsumption of food. Sneaking out to the stand produces deer and other game that you didn't know that were there. These slobs miss out on all kinds of sign such scrapes that would be a blur at 30 mph.

In northern Minnesota, hunters will mount hard plastic gun scabbards to their ATVs and ride along logging trails until they spot a grouse. Off they hop and pull out the shotgun, blast the grouse, mount up and tear off into the wilderness. Fortunately, there are new rules that change this on public land.

Here in Iowa, road hunters who hunt pheasants with pickups would actually have better luck getting out into their fields. That big patch of CRP seems pretty imposing to someone not willing to get out of a vehicle to go hunting.

I work for the regional daily newspaper here and was writing a story about the Iowa deer hunting opener in Plymouth County in northwest Iowa. The local conservation officer was tracking down deer hunters using their CBs and pickup trucks to spot animals and cut them off at the next section road. That method of hunting is accepted as common practice here. (Luckly, some hunters did their homework, set up blinds or tree stands and waited for some beautiful deer to come into range.)

The conservation officer stopped one group of bumpkins in trucks, and I asked one fat slob if they had walked any of the terraced fields with heavy cover where the big deer take refuge. The guy was offended by the word "walk," as he lit up a cigarette and waited for the impending heart attack. They only had one unimpressive deer in their party. Sounds like fun to me. They surely fired from the roadway, which is illegal in this state.

Forgive me for ranting. If you are disabled or have a very distant hunting stand I understand. I think ATVs are a crutch for the lazy who would get more out of the experience and would have more success by hoofing it into the woods and fields.

Learn to sneak and stalk, you'd be surprised what you'll see when moving silently.

bernie · November 17, 2001, 10:41 PM

We may both get flamed, but I agree with you wholeheartedly! I hunt on some private ground that belongs to my family (dad & I), and we have 4 wheelers riding all over the place all the time, even though the ground is plainly posted. I have had them ride under my tree stand while I was hunting, and not understand why I was miffed. And they ALWAYS get an attitude when we try to run them off (I spent X thousand dollars on this, and I need a place to ride it). I even had one lady park hers behind my target stand where I shoot. After politely asking her to move it, she did not. When I started pasting up targets she was offended that I might dare make her mover her ATV.

I am sure most of you guys obey the rules, but where I am, most people do not.

Sorry for the rant.

Borf · November 17, 2001, 10:48 PM

or, have we ever seen a "kodiak is sick of" atvs?

I have to agree with you. I realize that there are some people with very valid reasons for running around on those things, *however*, most of them seem to get run in circles so the owner can experience the joys of whining engines in nature.

Just this morning I drove out to the WMA. I drove in a half hour on gravel. I then parked and spent about an hour stalking in on an old jeep trail (no leaves!! no crunch! joyous lack of noise!) *maybe* 2 miles. I heard dozens of squirrels, I even snuck up on a gobbler! Well, his head anyway. As soon as his head saw me he was gone. I was impressed with myself though - and so the stalk continued. I got to the end of the road, continued along the ridge, hung myself out over a ravine and did my best to blend in.

Not 20 minutes later ... bbzzzbzbzbz BZBZBBZBZBZBZBZ and a little 4 wheeled spawn of satan comes blowing into my neck of the woods. Dude stops 20 yards from me and gets off. He lights a cigarette, walks around the area for maybe a half an hour then BBBZZZZZZ right off again.

Did he do anything wrong? Nope. Not at all. I just don't like them. I saw a number of these things around the WMA today - with predominantly stereotyped hunters on them. Overweight guy in bib overalls, etc. I'm of the frame of mind that these guys *get* being outdoors about as well as Bill Bryson does.

Correct me all you like, I still don't like them!

Related gripe - it's about like SCUBA diving when people are running jet skis all around above you.

Subby · November 18, 2001, 12:32 AM

Amen brother.

Sub

Art Eatman · November 18, 2001, 12:56 AM

I'm in total agreement with what's bugging y'all, but after all it's the idiot people, not the ATV itself...slobs is slobs is slobs.

I came just really close to putting an '06 bullet through the motor of a pickup truck, one time. Three guys pull off the road into a dry creek bed on my property, right under where I was sitting and waiting for Bambi to wander by. They unloaded an ATV, and one guy took off down-creek. The other two turned the truck around and headed up-creek--right below where a buddy was sitting.

These two nimrods got out of the truck, slamming doors, looking around, and said, "Aw, there ain't any deer around here." My buddy heard this, and refrained from ruining their motor because he was watching a doe and yearling behind a bush maybe 20 yards from the truck.

My father, my buddy and I met these cretins when they all gathered up and reloaded the ATV. We sort of read from the scriptures to them...Now, under the 1999 changes in Texas law, the TP&WD could take the guns, the truck and the ATV.

Nothing wrong with ATVs, except I'd like to find the button on them that disconnects the driver's brain...

Art

444 · November 18, 2001, 12:57 AM

I too agree. Many people view hunting as they do everything else in life; fast, easy, and as little effort as possible. Out here in the West, people just simply hunt off the ATV. The drive to a ridge, glass the area, and if they see anything they use the bike as a benchrest to shoot, drive up to the animal and load it up. Similar to going to the drive through at McDonalds. This is hunting ? I call it shooting. I used to love these fat slob road hunters. All I had to do was take the effort to walk 100 yards into the woods and I had the forest to myself. That is now gone with these ATVs. Now even the laziest pig that wants to call himself a hunter can invade the pristine wilderness. Like everything in our society, hunting has been cheapened. This is the same type of guy that would brag about shooting a deer in his yard from out the back door after he baited it.
I also agree that this is similar to the jerks on jet skis and see doos. You pull your boat into a beautiful cove, start working a rubber worm and some a**hole spends the next half hour driving his loud obnoxious jet ski right beside you. The lake is huge, but they wouldn't feel right about it unless they ruin your day.
The one thing I do approve of with ATVs is using one to pack out an elk. When you have 700 pounds of meat to get out in rugged, steep terain, I can see where one would be a godsend. Note I didn't say anything about driving it around while "hunting" and then using it as a shooting bench.

C.R.Sam · November 18, 2001, 06:50 AM

ATV on my posted land likely becomes my ATV.

Sam.

Borf · November 18, 2001, 01:14 PM

Shouldn't they be STV (*Some* Terrain Vehicle) anyhow? I can think of a whole mess of places my size 15s can get me that one of those things can't.

Art Eatman · November 18, 2001, 01:19 PM

Size 15? Sheesh, Borf! You'd be just really tall, if they hadn't turned so much of you under!

Just smart-mouthin',

Art

Borf · November 18, 2001, 11:14 PM

Art - you should see the locals get in a tizzy when I start taping extra toes to my boots and scrawl "sasquatch was here" on unattended porta-potties!

Art Eatman · November 18, 2001, 11:41 PM

Bowser · November 19, 2001, 02:59 AM

Well, HJM, you would seem to believe that "hunting" from a stand is real hunting....

Hiding up in a tree on a known deer route is not hunting. Those with even less scruples have their huts 75 yards from a feeder.

Why not have someone chain a deer to a tree so you can put an arrow in it?

Bowser.

inGobwetrust · November 19, 2001, 09:42 AM

Bowser,

Have you ever actually tried this? I wish it was nearly as easy as you make it sound. I suppose you fish without bait, too? I hunt with different methods at different times and to me, sitting in a stand takes a lot more discipline, concentration, and heightened awareness than stalking or still hunting as some call it. I guess it depends where you hunt but around here it's definitely no piece of cake.

By the way, your statement sounds an awful lot like what the anti-hunting crowd likes to say. Just wondering......

Art Eatman · November 19, 2001, 10:08 AM

Bowser, you're forgetting a few things. Not all hunters are highly skilled, for one--and nobody was born an expert; not you, not me.

Some terrain and cover pretty much preclude walking and hunting. The south Texas brush country comes to mind, with its impenetrable thickets of thorny bushes and trees--most of which is well above head height. Parts of the heavy timber and river bottom country in Florida and Georgia also fit into this category.

While I prefer walking in open country, I ain't real shabby at playing sneaky-snake in the swamps. But I don't have the unmitigated gall and arrogance to tell some city guy who has a total of two weeks a year to get to the Big Outdoors that he's unfit to hunt because he's in a stand.

Regards,

Art

J. Parker · November 19, 2001, 11:02 AM

Well, I'm an ATV enthusiest but not much of a hunter. My shootin' buddy and I take our ATV's along everytime we go campin'.
I agree with Art. It's the idiots ridin' 'em not the machine itself. Like it or not, public land (National Forest, BLM, etc) is for all of us to enjoy. Some folks just enjoy their outdoor experience differently than yourself.
FWIW, I'm 5'10" and about 170lbs so I wouldn't consider myself a lard-ass. My buddy works out so he's in real good shape.
We're always searching for "legal" places to ride. Here out west there're getting harder to find. The squeeze is on. The cranola crunchin', latte' drinkin', tree huggers will probably win in the end.
If you want quiet you'll probably get it sooner or later but until then I'm perfectly legal in my enjoyment of the outdoors.
If you can't stand the noise get out of the woods!

444 · November 19, 2001, 11:53 AM

J. Parker ; What you are talking about, is to me, a different subject altogether. Sure, ATVs are fun to ride. It is great fun exploring trails, dirt roads etc. I have a Jeep and a 4x4 truck that I do that in all the time. "Hunting" from an ATV is another matter. To me, it is no different than driving back roads in the car and shooting deer out the window. That is what I am talking about. I don't even have a problem with someone driving an ATV while I am hunting (may keep the animals moving), but again, driving right around a guy while he is hunting is another story, which as you say, has nothing to do with the ATV it is just common manners. Ditto the jet ski driving right around someone that is trying to fish. There is plenty of lake for everyone to enjoy, they just seem to always want to enjoy the exact same place you do; again, just common manners.
To me, hunting is about pitting your prey instincts and skills against that of your prey. Still hunting through the woods with all your senses on full alert. Looking for sign, listening for the slightest noise, trying to pick out the broken outline of an animal, searching for the slightest movement, even smell comes into play with some animals. Once again, for me, none of that comes into play when shooting an animal from an ATV.
Since you are not a hunter you may not realize what is at stake here. In the West, you don't just buy a tag, you have to get one from a lottery. Some tags take years of application to get. For example, here in Nevada, an elk tag is considered a once in a lifetime tag. The reason being that it usually takes about 10 years of application before you are drawn in the lottery. Then after being drawn, you must wait 10 years to apply again which then begins the cycle of applying for possibly another 10 years before you are drawn. If you were 20 when you started applying, it very well may take you until you were 30 to get a tag. Then you arn't eligible to apply again until you were 40 and it might take you until you were 50 to get drawn again. Again, here in the West, for most of us hunting isn't a matter of just walking out the back door. Most of us plan a hunt all year, drive to the area and scout several times, then you take vacation time to hunt............. Imagine going through all this only to have a possible once in a lifetime hunt destroyed by someone riding their ATV where you are trying to hunt. Sure, it may be legal, but the price paid by the hunter is usually way out of proportion to that payed by the guy on the ATV. If the hunter happens to be from out of state, he may have gone through this whole process and when he is finally drawn, it costs him over $1000 just for the tag. It would be extremly selfish and self serving to insist on exercising your right to ride at this guy's expense.

J. Parker · November 19, 2001, 12:46 PM

If both endeavors are legal then I guess we just have to be tolerent of one another. You put up with my noise and I'll put up with the "glares" I've received from so-called hunters. Walkin' around the woods with a pint of whiskey and a 30-06 is my idea of a real class act.
I don't even care to head for the woods in mid-October anymore....it's just to damn dangerous.

J. Parker · November 19, 2001, 01:29 PM

444; I do sympathize with your harsh elk tag situation. I don't think it's nearly so bad in Washington State. It's not an ATV problem, it's a state Fish and Game problem. Don't blame some poor sap on an ATV for a states wildlife management restrictions.
I'm not a big fan of personal watercraft (jet skis) but I tolerate them when I'm out there tryin' to fish. If I don't catch my limit I don't blame it on the jet skiers. Just tryin' to get along in the woods, J. Parker

vitiaz · November 19, 2001, 04:56 PM

My Grandpa uses his...I hope ya'll cut him some slack. He's 'only' 92 and has taken a deer every year since 1919...It's really the only way he can get back to his favorite hunting spot.

johnbt · November 19, 2001, 08:08 PM

"Hiding up in a tree on a known deer route is not hunting"

What do you suggest for an alternative? Sneaking up on them while they're sleeping?

Does hiding in a duck blind or behind a rock qualify as real hunting?

John

slick slidestop · November 19, 2001, 09:25 PM

Sounds like an ATV is to some Hunters like Jet Ski's are to some Fishermen A real PITA

Art Eatman · November 19, 2001, 09:39 PM

J.Parker, we're in agreement about idiots: "Walkin' around the woods with a pint of whiskey and a 30-06 is my idea of a real class act." I understand your sarcasm...

As far as legal and tolerant, consider this: In west Texas, mule deer season is sixteen days. Is it unreasonable for a hunter to want ATVs to stay home for sixteen days, and go ahead and explore/play/whatever for the other 349 days of the year?

Seems to me it's a fair play thing...

Art

J. Parker · November 19, 2001, 10:44 PM

Art, you make a good point but nothings going to change unless somebody makes it so.
You have a narrow window of hunting in Texas....444 has an almost impossible Elk hunt in nevada....sorry, I can't help you....you hunters are going to have to help yourselves unless the rules change.
It's public land and we're ALL entitled to recreate on it to whatver degree within legal limits.
If 444 had his trophy elk in his sights I'd give him a very wide berth so he could claim his prize but please don't blame a failed hunt on an ATV. Ridiculous.

C.R.Sam · November 19, 2001, 11:50 PM

I enjoy ATVs, two, three n four wheeled. I also stay off of hunting land with them during hunting season.

And I darn shure stay off of posted property at all times.

No problem.

Sam

444 · November 20, 2001, 12:02 AM

.....nothings going to change unless somebody makes it so.
True, and you could be the one that does something to change. We are all responsible to make our own decisions, relying on the government to regulate our actions is (as PJ O'Rourke says) like giving a teenager a bottle of whiskey and the keys to the car. This is one of those areas where legality becomes confused with moral (ethical, fair, just.....) behavior Just because something is legal, doesn't make it the right thing to do. I remember a song from when I was a kid that said; No body told me not to paint the kitty, so I did. I am pretty sure that there is no law against talking in a movie theater and if you want to ruin a good time for everyone else I guess you can.
The reason there are hunting seasons, limits on tags, and bag limits is because a wildlife biologist determined that these parameters were the best thing for the animal species involved. The limitations on hunting arn't the "fault" of anyone. They are designed with a long term goal of protecting the species. Responsible hunters have no desire to change any of this, it would be cutting our own throats in the future.

November 17, 2001, 10:23 PM	#1
HerrJaegermeister Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2001 Location: Sioux City, Iowa Posts: 126	ATVs annoy me There is nothing more annoying than watching someone from my tree stand drive an ATV a quarter mile to their deer stand. They are noisy and disturb the woods, even more so than a pickup. People, use your feet and simply hike into the woods. That bulging thing hanging over your belts is blubber caused by laziness and overconsumption of food. Sneaking out to the stand produces deer and other game that you didn't know that were there. These slobs miss out on all kinds of sign such scrapes that would be a blur at 30 mph. In northern Minnesota, hunters will mount hard plastic gun scabbards to their ATVs and ride along logging trails until they spot a grouse. Off they hop and pull out the shotgun, blast the grouse, mount up and tear off into the wilderness. Fortunately, there are new rules that change this on public land. Here in Iowa, road hunters who hunt pheasants with pickups would actually have better luck getting out into their fields. That big patch of CRP seems pretty imposing to someone not willing to get out of a vehicle to go hunting. I work for the regional daily newspaper here and was writing a story about the Iowa deer hunting opener in Plymouth County in northwest Iowa. The local conservation officer was tracking down deer hunters using their CBs and pickup trucks to spot animals and cut them off at the next section road. That method of hunting is accepted as common practice here. (Luckly, some hunters did their homework, set up blinds or tree stands and waited for some beautiful deer to come into range.) The conservation officer stopped one group of bumpkins in trucks, and I asked one fat slob if they had walked any of the terraced fields with heavy cover where the big deer take refuge. The guy was offended by the word "walk," as he lit up a cigarette and waited for the impending heart attack. They only had one unimpressive deer in their party. Sounds like fun to me. They surely fired from the roadway, which is illegal in this state. Forgive me for ranting. If you are disabled or have a very distant hunting stand I understand. I think ATVs are a crutch for the lazy who would get more out of the experience and would have more success by hoofing it into the woods and fields. Learn to sneak and stalk, you'd be surprised what you'll see when moving silently.

November 17, 2001, 10:48 PM	#3
Borf Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 424	In the spirit of opinion or, have we ever seen a "kodiak is sick of" atvs? I have to agree with you. I realize that there are some people with very valid reasons for running around on those things, however, most of them seem to get run in circles so the owner can experience the joys of whining engines in nature. Just this morning I drove out to the WMA. I drove in a half hour on gravel. I then parked and spent about an hour stalking in on an old jeep trail (no leaves!! no crunch! joyous lack of noise!) maybe 2 miles. I heard dozens of squirrels, I even snuck up on a gobbler! Well, his head anyway. As soon as his head saw me he was gone. I was impressed with myself though - and so the stalk continued. I got to the end of the road, continued along the ridge, hung myself out over a ravine and did my best to blend in. Not 20 minutes later ... bbzzzbzbzbz BZBZBBZBZBZBZBZ and a little 4 wheeled spawn of satan comes blowing into my neck of the woods. Dude stops 20 yards from me and gets off. He lights a cigarette, walks around the area for maybe a half an hour then BBBZZZZZZ right off again. Did he do anything wrong? Nope. Not at all. I just don't like them. I saw a number of these things around the WMA today - with predominantly stereotyped hunters on them. Overweight guy in bib overalls, etc. I'm of the frame of mind that these guys get being outdoors about as well as Bill Bryson does. Correct me all you like, I still don't like them! Related gripe - it's about like SCUBA diving when people are running jet skis all around above you. __________________ A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. -- Wiliam James If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money it values more, it will lose that, too. -- W. Somerset Maugham

November 18, 2001, 12:57 AM	#6
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	I too agree. Many people view hunting as they do everything else in life; fast, easy, and as little effort as possible. Out here in the West, people just simply hunt off the ATV. The drive to a ridge, glass the area, and if they see anything they use the bike as a benchrest to shoot, drive up to the animal and load it up. Similar to going to the drive through at McDonalds. This is hunting ? I call it shooting. I used to love these fat slob road hunters. All I had to do was take the effort to walk 100 yards into the woods and I had the forest to myself. That is now gone with these ATVs. Now even the laziest pig that wants to call himself a hunter can invade the pristine wilderness. Like everything in our society, hunting has been cheapened. This is the same type of guy that would brag about shooting a deer in his yard from out the back door after he baited it. I also agree that this is similar to the jerks on jet skis and see doos. You pull your boat into a beautiful cove, start working a rubber worm and some a**hole spends the next half hour driving his loud obnoxious jet ski right beside you. The lake is huge, but they wouldn't feel right about it unless they ruin your day. The one thing I do approve of with ATVs is using one to pack out an elk. When you have 700 pounds of meat to get out in rugged, steep terain, I can see where one would be a godsend. Note I didn't say anything about driving it around while "hunting" and then using it as a shooting bench. __________________ You know the rest. In the books you have read How the British Regulars fired and fled, How the farmers gave them ball for ball, From behind each fence and farmyard wall, Chasing the redcoats down the lane, Then crossing the fields to emerge again Under the trees at the turn of the road, And only pausing to fire and load.

November 18, 2001, 01:14 PM	#8
Borf Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 424	Shouldn't they be STV (Some Terrain Vehicle) anyhow? I can think of a whole mess of places my size 15s can get me that one of those things can't. __________________ A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. -- Wiliam James If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money it values more, it will lose that, too. -- W. Somerset Maugham

November 18, 2001, 11:14 PM	#10
Borf Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 424	Art - you should see the locals get in a tizzy when I start taping extra toes to my boots and scrawl "sasquatch was here" on unattended porta-potties! __________________ A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. -- Wiliam James If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money it values more, it will lose that, too. -- W. Somerset Maugham

November 17, 2001, 10:41 PM	#2
bernie Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2000 Posts: 145	We may both get flamed, but I agree with you wholeheartedly! I hunt on some private ground that belongs to my family (dad & I), and we have 4 wheelers riding all over the place all the time, even though the ground is plainly posted. I have had them ride under my tree stand while I was hunting, and not understand why I was miffed. And they ALWAYS get an attitude when we try to run them off (I spent X thousand dollars on this, and I need a place to ride it). I even had one lady park hers behind my target stand where I shoot. After politely asking her to move it, she did not. When I started pasting up targets she was offended that I might dare make her mover her ATV. I am sure most of you guys obey the rules, but where I am, most people do not. Sorry for the rant.

November 18, 2001, 12:32 AM	#4
Subby Member Join Date: December 10, 2000 Posts: 94	Amen brother. Sub

November 18, 2001, 12:56 AM	#5
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	I'm in total agreement with what's bugging y'all, but after all it's the idiot people, not the ATV itself...slobs is slobs is slobs. I came just really close to putting an '06 bullet through the motor of a pickup truck, one time. Three guys pull off the road into a dry creek bed on my property, right under where I was sitting and waiting for Bambi to wander by. They unloaded an ATV, and one guy took off down-creek. The other two turned the truck around and headed up-creek--right below where a buddy was sitting. These two nimrods got out of the truck, slamming doors, looking around, and said, "Aw, there ain't any deer around here." My buddy heard this, and refrained from ruining their motor because he was watching a doe and yearling behind a bush maybe 20 yards from the truck. My father, my buddy and I met these cretins when they all gathered up and reloaded the ATV. We sort of read from the scriptures to them...Now, under the 1999 changes in Texas law, the TP&WD could take the guns, the truck and the ATV. Nothing wrong with ATVs, except I'd like to find the button on them that disconnects the driver's brain... Art

November 18, 2001, 06:50 AM	#7
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	ATV on my posted land likely becomes my ATV. Sam.

November 18, 2001, 01:19 PM	#9
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Size 15? Sheesh, Borf! You'd be just really tall, if they hadn't turned so much of you under! Just smart-mouthin', Art

November 18, 2001, 11:41 PM	#11
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798

November 19, 2001, 02:59 AM	#12
Bowser Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2001 Posts: 257	Well, HJM, you would seem to believe that "hunting" from a stand is real hunting.... Hiding up in a tree on a known deer route is not hunting. Those with even less scruples have their huts 75 yards from a feeder. Why not have someone chain a deer to a tree so you can put an arrow in it? Bowser.

November 19, 2001, 09:42 AM	#13
inGobwetrust Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2001 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 179	Bowser, Have you ever actually tried this? I wish it was nearly as easy as you make it sound. I suppose you fish without bait, too? I hunt with different methods at different times and to me, sitting in a stand takes a lot more discipline, concentration, and heightened awareness than stalking or still hunting as some call it. I guess it depends where you hunt but around here it's definitely no piece of cake. By the way, your statement sounds an awful lot like what the anti-hunting crowd likes to say. Just wondering...... __________________ "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell

November 19, 2001, 10:08 AM	#14
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Bowser, you're forgetting a few things. Not all hunters are highly skilled, for one--and nobody was born an expert; not you, not me. Some terrain and cover pretty much preclude walking and hunting. The south Texas brush country comes to mind, with its impenetrable thickets of thorny bushes and trees--most of which is well above head height. Parts of the heavy timber and river bottom country in Florida and Georgia also fit into this category. While I prefer walking in open country, I ain't real shabby at playing sneaky-snake in the swamps. But I don't have the unmitigated gall and arrogance to tell some city guy who has a total of two weeks a year to get to the Big Outdoors that he's unfit to hunt because he's in a stand. Regards, Art

November 19, 2001, 11:02 AM	#15
J. Parker Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2000 Location: Ephrata, wa. USA Posts: 1,338	Well, I'm an ATV enthusiest but not much of a hunter. My shootin' buddy and I take our ATV's along everytime we go campin'. I agree with Art. It's the idiots ridin' 'em not the machine itself. Like it or not, public land (National Forest, BLM, etc) is for all of us to enjoy. Some folks just enjoy their outdoor experience differently than yourself. FWIW, I'm 5'10" and about 170lbs so I wouldn't consider myself a lard-ass. My buddy works out so he's in real good shape. We're always searching for "legal" places to ride. Here out west there're getting harder to find. The squeeze is on. The cranola crunchin', latte' drinkin', tree huggers will probably win in the end. If you want quiet you'll probably get it sooner or later but until then I'm perfectly legal in my enjoyment of the outdoors. If you can't stand the noise get out of the woods!

November 19, 2001, 11:53 AM	#16
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	J. Parker ; What you are talking about, is to me, a different subject altogether. Sure, ATVs are fun to ride. It is great fun exploring trails, dirt roads etc. I have a Jeep and a 4x4 truck that I do that in all the time. "Hunting" from an ATV is another matter. To me, it is no different than driving back roads in the car and shooting deer out the window. That is what I am talking about. I don't even have a problem with someone driving an ATV while I am hunting (may keep the animals moving), but again, driving right around a guy while he is hunting is another story, which as you say, has nothing to do with the ATV it is just common manners. Ditto the jet ski driving right around someone that is trying to fish. There is plenty of lake for everyone to enjoy, they just seem to always want to enjoy the exact same place you do; again, just common manners. To me, hunting is about pitting your prey instincts and skills against that of your prey. Still hunting through the woods with all your senses on full alert. Looking for sign, listening for the slightest noise, trying to pick out the broken outline of an animal, searching for the slightest movement, even smell comes into play with some animals. Once again, for me, none of that comes into play when shooting an animal from an ATV. Since you are not a hunter you may not realize what is at stake here. In the West, you don't just buy a tag, you have to get one from a lottery. Some tags take years of application to get. For example, here in Nevada, an elk tag is considered a once in a lifetime tag. The reason being that it usually takes about 10 years of application before you are drawn in the lottery. Then after being drawn, you must wait 10 years to apply again which then begins the cycle of applying for possibly another 10 years before you are drawn. If you were 20 when you started applying, it very well may take you until you were 30 to get a tag. Then you arn't eligible to apply again until you were 40 and it might take you until you were 50 to get drawn again. Again, here in the West, for most of us hunting isn't a matter of just walking out the back door. Most of us plan a hunt all year, drive to the area and scout several times, then you take vacation time to hunt............. Imagine going through all this only to have a possible once in a lifetime hunt destroyed by someone riding their ATV where you are trying to hunt. Sure, it may be legal, but the price paid by the hunter is usually way out of proportion to that payed by the guy on the ATV. If the hunter happens to be from out of state, he may have gone through this whole process and when he is finally drawn, it costs him over $1000 just for the tag. It would be extremly selfish and self serving to insist on exercising your right to ride at this guy's expense. Last edited by 444; November 19, 2001 at 12:13 PM.

November 19, 2001, 12:46 PM	#17
J. Parker Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2000 Location: Ephrata, wa. USA Posts: 1,338	If both endeavors are legal then I guess we just have to be tolerent of one another. You put up with my noise and I'll put up with the "glares" I've received from so-called hunters. Walkin' around the woods with a pint of whiskey and a 30-06 is my idea of a real class act. I don't even care to head for the woods in mid-October anymore....it's just to damn dangerous.

November 19, 2001, 01:29 PM	#18
J. Parker Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2000 Location: Ephrata, wa. USA Posts: 1,338	444; I do sympathize with your harsh elk tag situation. I don't think it's nearly so bad in Washington State. It's not an ATV problem, it's a state Fish and Game problem. Don't blame some poor sap on an ATV for a states wildlife management restrictions. I'm not a big fan of personal watercraft (jet skis) but I tolerate them when I'm out there tryin' to fish. If I don't catch my limit I don't blame it on the jet skiers. Just tryin' to get along in the woods, J. Parker

November 19, 2001, 04:56 PM	#19
vitiaz Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 158	My Grandpa uses his...I hope ya'll cut him some slack. He's 'only' 92 and has taken a deer every year since 1919...It's really the only way he can get back to his favorite hunting spot. __________________ Molon labe

November 19, 2001, 08:08 PM	#20
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	"Hiding up in a tree on a known deer route is not hunting" What do you suggest for an alternative? Sneaking up on them while they're sleeping? Does hiding in a duck blind or behind a rock qualify as real hunting? John

November 19, 2001, 09:25 PM	#21
slick slidestop Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 394	Sounds like an ATV is to some Hunters like Jet Ski's are to some Fishermen A real PITA

November 19, 2001, 09:39 PM	#22
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	J.Parker, we're in agreement about idiots: "Walkin' around the woods with a pint of whiskey and a 30-06 is my idea of a real class act." I understand your sarcasm... As far as legal and tolerant, consider this: In west Texas, mule deer season is sixteen days. Is it unreasonable for a hunter to want ATVs to stay home for sixteen days, and go ahead and explore/play/whatever for the other 349 days of the year? Seems to me it's a fair play thing... Art

November 19, 2001, 10:44 PM	#23
J. Parker Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2000 Location: Ephrata, wa. USA Posts: 1,338	Art, you make a good point but nothings going to change unless somebody makes it so. You have a narrow window of hunting in Texas....444 has an almost impossible Elk hunt in nevada....sorry, I can't help you....you hunters are going to have to help yourselves unless the rules change. It's public land and we're ALL entitled to recreate on it to whatver degree within legal limits. If 444 had his trophy elk in his sights I'd give him a very wide berth so he could claim his prize but please don't blame a failed hunt on an ATV. Ridiculous.

November 19, 2001, 11:50 PM	#24
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	I enjoy ATVs, two, three n four wheeled. I also stay off of hunting land with them during hunting season. And I darn shure stay off of posted property at all times. No problem. Sam

November 20, 2001, 12:02 AM	#25
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	.....nothings going to change unless somebody makes it so. True, and you could be the one that does something to change. We are all responsible to make our own decisions, relying on the government to regulate our actions is (as PJ O'Rourke says) like giving a teenager a bottle of whiskey and the keys to the car. This is one of those areas where legality becomes confused with moral (ethical, fair, just.....) behavior Just because something is legal, doesn't make it the right thing to do. I remember a song from when I was a kid that said; No body told me not to paint the kitty, so I did. I am pretty sure that there is no law against talking in a movie theater and if you want to ruin a good time for everyone else I guess you can. The reason there are hunting seasons, limits on tags, and bag limits is because a wildlife biologist determined that these parameters were the best thing for the animal species involved. The limitations on hunting arn't the "fault" of anyone. They are designed with a long term goal of protecting the species. Responsible hunters have no desire to change any of this, it would be cutting our own throats in the future.