Spats McGee Ponders Another Polymer Puzzle

[Spats McGee]

Thank you all for your input. Interestingly, at this point, 18 votes out of 39 are for "love the one you're with."

Mrs. McGee has fired an XD in 9mm (fullsize, if I remember correctly), as well as the G19. Hates 'em both. No, the G19 is not Mrs. McGee's carry gun. It never has been, and I've never even wanted to choose her concealed carry pistol for her. That said, now that I know that she loathes shooting it, that aspect of it can simply be removed from the table. (Also, my wife does enjoy target shooting, so having guns that she enjoys shooting increases the chances that she'll go to the range with me.)

Originally Posted by Don P

Eeegattts, if I had to put that much thought into buying a hand gun I might consider giving up shooting. . . . .

If you think I'm bad about handguns, you should see me try to buy a car.

Do I overthink it? By most folks' standards, yeah, but not by mine. I thoroughly detest Buyer's Remorse.

Originally Posted by Joe_Pike

I don't believe that's possible. If he had the G23 he could get a 9mm and .357 SIG barrel, though.

Trading a G19 for a G23 and getting a conversion barrel would be an option, but (believe it or not), I was trying not to open up too many options on myself. A G23 would fit all of my holsters, already, though, and I suppose I could keep some of the mags which I bought for my G19 for 9mm in a G23, right?

Originally Posted by TunnelRat

. . . . .

Yes, I have. The weight isn't dramatic with a quality holster. Honestly the slightly smaller grip (I'm a bit narrow from front to back) was more of a help to me and it offset the weight. My issues with the XDm Compact stem from a pistol that to me feels unbalanced in the hand. Many people find polymer pistols unbalanced. I can honestly say the XDm Compact is one of the few polymer pistols that felt that way to me. The hunky slide of the XDm with the small grip was definitely noticeable. Now I still shot the pistol very well (better than a Glock) so it's sort of a moot point, just an observation.

Thanks, TR. That's very helpful. Interestingly, when I first got my Glock, I had virtually zero experience with polymer pistols, and it felt unbalanced to me. To my hand, it felt like a self-correcting problem once I put in a loaded mag, though.

Originally Posted by Uncle Malice

Spats,

I've had the XDM in 9mm and 45 in both compact and full size. I found the recoil pulse on the XDM 45 compact to be less than pleasant.

If I may, then, I'll ask a follow-up question. Have you fired an XDs? How does the recoil compare? I actually found the XDs to be fairly soft-shooting (for such an itty-bitty gun in .45). I do not know if any of our local ranges have any of the models under consideration for rent, but if I decide to make the leap, I'll definitely be renting before buying if I can.

Originally Posted by Uncle Malice

The XDM 9 compact is definitely a pretty nice gun. It definitely needs a better trigger in my opinion. So add another $140 to the top of your cost.

Good to know, though I don't have any problems with the Glock trigger.

Originally Posted by Uncle Malice

I still have the XDM 9 fullsize and while I like it, the trigger is meh... even with the Springer Precision kit installed. I'm pretty much only keeping it as a point of reference. I've owned it a few times and sold... then forget why I sold.

If you're up for any other suggestions, I would push you to the M&P 9 with Apex DCAEK & AEK polymer trigger. You'll be all set with that for about the same price as the XDM out the door - before any trigger upgrades.

Also good to know. The M&P series was on my list when I first started this adventure in to polymer pistols. I'm really, really trying not to add too many more possibilities to The List, because of the aforementioned overthinking, but maybe I do need to go back and handle one of those . . . . . . . just once . . . just to be sure.

Originally Posted by jmr40

My advice:

The triggers/ergonomics are just different enough that I'd suggest staying with one brand. Pick one, and buy multiple guns of the same brand and you will be much happier going from one to the other.

I sort of think of the Glocks as a shooting system rather than individual guns. I have G-17, 19, 26. I keep the mag made for the gun in it when carrying, but only use G-17 mags as spares. I also have G20 and G21. The grips are a little bigger, but cheap practice with one of the 9mm's is with the same trigger and feel.

That matches my theory. One thought that I was toying with was to (somehow scrounge enough money to) buy an XDm in 9 for practice and an XDm in .45 for carry. Unfortunately, I haven't really liked any of the .45 Glocks that I've held, except for the G21 . . . As much as I like the thought of having 13 rounds of .45 on hand, that's a big mamu gun to conceal.

Originally Posted by Venom1956

Why not just keep the g19 get the xd9 and if the xd is davoeible when u compared head to head. Then dump the g19 and then u can use that to get a xd45 later?

While I'm not sure what "davoeible" means, I'm guessing you mean "get the XD9 and see if it's better than the G19, and if it is, dump the G19 and get the XD45?"

[Uncle Malice]

If I may, then, I'll ask a follow-up question. Have you fired an XDs?

I have not, sorry. I have shot the M&P Shield 9 and really enjoyed it.

Good to know, though I don't have any problems with the Glock trigger.

I don't either, really. My biggest complaint with the XD/XDM trigger is that there is no discernible break. It's nice and smooth, but it just rolls right through the break point. I just don't care for that characteristic.

Also good to know. The M&P series was on my list when I first started this adventure in to polymer pistols. I'm really, really trying not to add too many more possibilities to The List, because of the aforementioned overthinking, but maybe I do need to go back and handle one of those . . . . . . . just once . . . just to be sure.

Attaboy. And, for what it's worth, the new M&P's have very good trigger resets. My newest is my M&P 9 and it has a nice forceful, clicky reset. Not quite as forceful as the Glock, but probably about on par with HK - only not nearly as long. Its definitely noticeable and a huge improvement over the old design. The way they have achieved this is by modifying the slide lock lever to apply a bit of pressure to the trigger bar, so when it clears the sear cam and snaps back into place, it does so with authority. It seems to me that this may actually be a point of improved reliability, although I never heard of an issue with the trigger not resetting on the M&P in the first place. Just a potential point to note.

[marine6680]

If you just want another pistol... Get one.

Just don't sell the one you have now, it's always nice to have options and variety at the range.

I know I will end up with an XD again... And a few glocks, now that I found out I shoot them well, and the gen 4 has fixed a good deal of my issue with the feel of the pistol. The fiancé feels the same, and wants a glock for carry... I will also end up with a PPQ, as the trigger is great on that pistol.

I already have an M&P, but I am not a fan of the trigger pull, even after I smoothed it out, the trigger feels a little mushy at the break. Got a sig 320 too, it's a nice pistol.

I just like having different pistols around, even if they are "similar".

I like the all metal pistols too... I have a tough choice between the CZ75 or the sig 226 as my favorite pistols in my safe.


I'm not big on selling guns... Unless I just don't like them or want them, and even then I would hesitate. I won't sell a gun I like for another gun... I will miss the one I sell even if I like the new one better.

[Uncle Malice]

the trigger feels a little mushy at the break

Get the Apex sear.

[marine6680]

Get the Apex sear.

Just the sear?

I was looking at the FSS kit but wasn't sure.


To me, it feels like the trigger flexes to much, so I was looking at replacing the trigger too. I can deal with the pretravel, but wouldn't mind reducing it. Its the mushy feel that gets me, I just can't seem to get the pull down.

[RodTheWrench]

Spats - get a G23 and separate barrels, then sell the G19 (if you must). Here's why:

.40 cal Glocks are being dumped for cheap right now. Whether it's because police departments are going back to the 9 or people don't like the 40 as much anymore, it doesn't matter. You can buy a model 22 or 23(sometimes 27) for about 400 bucks these days - usually Gen 3s but I've seen Gen 4s for near that too.

THEN, get a LoneWolf barrel in 357Sig, and one in 9mm. About 100 bucks each, maybe 120.

If you choose to shoot 40 in your G23, that's fine. I have some 40 ammo for my G22, but I haven't shot that caliber out of it for about 2 years. What has worked out best for me is carrying it in 357Sig using the 40 mags, then swapping out for the 9mm barrel for plinking. Easy peasy! I get massive SD power PLUS the pleasure and relative softness of a fun range round. Same frame, same trigger, 2 distinct calibers.

I honestly have no idea why more people don't do it.

Now, I'll probably get beat up for this, but I use the 40 mags for 9mm as well when I'm at the range. You just have to be prepared for the last round to hang up due to the big .40 follower kicking it off to one side. I'll get some 9mm mags soon enough, but you already have plenty even if you include 2 or 3 with the sale of your G19.

Do that. Makes sense!

[Pond, James Pond]

I thoroughly detest Buyer's Remorse.

I've never even seen an XDm other than on my screen so I can't help with their relative virtues, but your comment above makes the choice clear.

If you were ambivalent about the G19, I'd say sell. But you're not. You may not "LOVE" it, but you are certainly pleased with it and if you sold it, the XDm or which ever replacement you chose would have to be better and by some order of magnitude for you not to regret selling the Glock.

SO, I will offer two options on here, if not the poll.
Either keep what you have and enjoy it, or keep it and buy one of the XDm too, funds allowing. Once you've tried both, if you find your affections are fading, ditch the one that no longer captures you attention.

BTW, How are you with Seller's Remorse?

[Venom1956]

While I'm not sure what "davoeible" means, I'm guessing you mean "get the XD9 and see if it's better than the G19, and if it is, dump the G19 and get the XD45?"

BAHAHAHAA typing on a bumpy highway whilst my battery was dying I didnt even notice! yes you got the gist of the comment.

Its hard imo for someone to accurately compare two different guns over a large period of time. You might remember it better or worse then it actually was. But back to back over and over makes it much easier. If you fall in love with the xd you can drop the G19 easily and either recoup your investment for the XD9 or put it forward to a XD45 or XDs9/45?

[Spats McGee]

Originally Posted by Pond, James Pond

I've never even seen an XDm other than on my screen so I can't help with their relative virtues, but your comment above makes the choice clear.

If you were ambivalent about the G19, I'd say sell. But you're not. You may not "LOVE" it, but you are certainly pleased with it and if you sold it, the XDm or which ever replacement you chose would have to be better and by some order of magnitude for you not to regret selling the Glock.

SO, I will offer two options on here, if not the poll.
Either keep what you have and enjoy it, or keep it and buy one of the XDm too, funds allowing. Once you've tried both, if you find your affections are fading, ditch the one that no longer captures you attention.

BTW, How are you with Seller's Remorse?

This makes lots of sense.

Honestly, I'm probably pretty awful about Seller's Remorse, too. The kicker is that I don't really know. Since I research the living snot out of every important purchase, I rarely have to sell off anything important.

@ RodThe Wrench -- While the G23/conversion barrel makes some sense, I don't have much interest in either .40 or .357 Sig. I've never shot a .357 Sig, nor researched performance or cost, to be honest. However, I do try to limit the number of calibers that I shoot, for a variety of reasons.

Originally Posted by marine6680

If you just want another pistol... Get one.

Just don't sell the one you have now, it's always nice to have options and variety at the range. . . . .

I'm not big on selling guns...

I'm not, either, and that's one of my problems here. I have a gun. I have a gun that works. I have a gun that works and she meets all of my criteria for an "acceptable carry pistol." So I am reluctant to sell her.

[RodTheWrench]

"One thought that I was toying with was to (somehow scrounge enough money to) buy an XDm in 9 for practice and an XDm in .45 for carry. Unfortunately, I haven't really liked any of the .45 Glocks that I've held, except for the G21 . . . As much as I like the thought of having 13 rounds of .45 on hand, that's a big mamu gun to conceal."

Glock 23/Conversion barrel - it's THE SAME GUN for both calibers. I say shoot 357Sig out of it only enough for you to be comfortable with, then use it the other 90% of the time as a 9mm, just like you have now. I may be bold in saying, but it appears that funds may be tight for you, this is absolutely the best bang for your buck out there.

Again, you don't have to buy a ton of 357Sig OR shoot a ton of that caliber if you go that route.

[lee n. field]

A case of confirmation bias, in which a very small percentage of failures is used to uphold the theory at the expense of ignoring the majority of evidence that there is no real problem.

Interesting observation.

[marine6680]

People tend to be horrible at statistics/probability, and can see small numbers of problems as evidence of a larger issue, despite overwhelming examples of successes.

[Spats McGee]

Originally Posted by RodTheWrench

Glock 23/Conversion barrel - it's THE SAME GUN for both calibers. I say shoot 357Sig out of it only enough for you to be comfortable with, then use it the other 90% of the time as a 9mm, just like you have now. I may be bold in saying, but it appears that funds may be tight for you, this is absolutely the best bang for your buck out there.

I get that. Honest, I do. However:

Originally Posted by Spats McGee

@ RodThe Wrench -- While the G23/conversion barrel makes some sense, I don't have much interest in either .40 or .357 Sig. I've never shot a .357 Sig, nor researched performance or cost, to be honest. However, I do try to limit the number of calibers that I shoot, for a variety of reasons.

Getting the G23 and conversion barrels adds two extra calibers that I'll have to feed, at least once, and it's adding two extra calibers in which I have little or no interest.

Yes, funds are tight, but I'm also just a little compulsive in my research.

[lee n. field]

People tend to be horrible at statistics/probability, and can see small numbers of problems as evidence of a larger issue, despite overwhelming examples of successes.

So, it's maybe a bad inference to say that (some) Glock fans seem especially prone to the gun disparagement behavior?

[RodTheWrench]

Throw away the 40 barrel then. Now you've got only 2 calibers to worry about.

[marine6680]

So, it's maybe a bad inference to say that (some) Glock fans seem especially prone to the gun disparagement behavior?

I think you are safe if you leave the quantifier "Some" in there...

[lee n. field]

I think you are safe if you leave the quantifier "Some" in there...

Which is to say, my observation (about some Glock fans) is itself a possible example of confirmation bias.

Which is why I festooned it with smilies.

[Spats McGee]

Well, I've made a discovery. On my lunch break, I decided to call a local range, and they have the XDm 3.8" for rent in 9mm, .40 and .45.

I think I know the next step in the analysis.

[KyJim]

Good idea to rent. That said, I'm from the "don't fix it if it's not broke" school of thinking. I don't sell or trade guns I like (except once when finances dictated I do so).

[Nathan]

So much opinion thrown out here, I thought I would throw mine out.
IMNSHO:
- You seem to really be content with the Glock. . . .When I'm content with a gun I tend to buy lots of ammo, holsters and use it quite a bit enhancing my skills with it. . . .ALL THIS MEANS HARD TO CHANGE.

- Fundamentally, the XDM has a better trigger pull. Again, my opinion, that's what you are buying. While this is an opinion, I find it illogical that it someone could honestly find the Glock trigger better. That said, who cares? Both are quite shootable. 100's of times better than the M&P trigger. . .worse than any decent 1911 trigger.

- If you really want to risk it and replace the gun you love, buy the XDM and try it out for a while. If you sell it, you will likely have less than $50 + ammo into the whole experiment once all is bought and sold. This is why I selected keep and buy.

Honestly, you might be better off just buying a better holster or more ammo!

[WildBill45]

This is like asking a golfer if he breathes in or out when hitting the ball ... causes confusion. After reading all the posts I just gave all my guns away and bought a video game from my kid...

[Darker Loaf]

Regarding the XDs, I've had a limited amount of trigger time on both the XDs in 9mm and the XDs in .45 ACP. Both are doable, but I prefer the 9mm for lower recoil and greater round count. I was actually fairly surprised with the XDs in .45 ACP; it was worse to shoot an LCP in .380 than it.

I really don't understand why the OP is having a problem. If his wife doesn't like either gun, then switching guns to another gun she doesn't like isn't going to be a solution.

For me, if I spent the money on the holsters and extra mags, that would pretty much lock me into the G19. I say this as a happy XD (not the "M" variety, but the original one) owner. Would I be happier with an XDm? Maybe in the 5.25 variety, I would, but I have extra mags, holsters, and barrels for my XD: I'm just in too deep. Though we all have our preferences with the plastic framed service guns, they are all pretty much about as good. You make like X, Y, or Z about Glocks or XD's but they will both work about as well.

As far as grip safeties are concerned... I've never had an issue or even seen a shooter who has had an issue with my XD. Sure, I've heard the arguments and they make sense on an theoretical basis, but with the 10,000's of rounds through the gun, nobody has ever caused such a failure or had an issue of not engaging the safety.

Someday I want a more precise gun than my XD, and I seem to do good work with CZ's and that CZ Custom shop does some nice looking work.