Colt Challenger hammer drop

privateside · July 1, 2013, 12:38 AM

I thought I had worked the kinks out of my 2nd generation colt by replacing the recoil spring, but apparently something else is wrong. If the slide is allowed to drop free on its own the hammer follows. I'm not sure if it is generating enough momentum to set a round off, but I'm worried it might. Obviously something needs to be fixed before firing again. Any suggestions?

1911Tuner · July 1, 2013, 01:10 AM

Does the hammer follow all the way down, or does it stop on the half cock? (Or quarter cock if it's a Series 80)

No, a simple followdown won't fire the gun, but it's hard to tell if it's just following or jarring off...which will cause a discharge.

privateside · July 13, 2013, 12:57 PM

Same problem as 2 years ago. Thought I might have discovered the problem and ordered a slide stop spring and can't figure out how it should attach or of it even a part needed for my pistol. My eye has returned to the sear spring. Confirmation? Dissenting opinions? I love this gun and want to get her running again so I can teach my wife to shoot with a .22 rather than a .357.

Also, there is no half cock as the hammer is internal.

g.willikers · July 13, 2013, 02:12 PM

Isn't that the same general design as the Colt Woodsman and maybe the Huntsman?
And maybe even very similar to the Browning Challenger and Buckmark?

privateside · July 13, 2013, 03:00 PM

The woodsman and huntsman are essentially the same design but do haveajor differences since they wee made over at least a 40 year span. I don't believe the buck mark is related, but I've been told that Belgiun challengers are perhaps superior, but I don't know if that refers to browning made guns or not.

g.willikers · July 13, 2013, 05:37 PM

From your description, it's not clear whether the hammer follows down when the gun is fired normally.
If it does then, as well as when the slide is let go manually, maybe it's a weak sear spring.

Bill DeShivs · July 13, 2013, 06:13 PM

Colt never made a Challenger.
The challenger was an FN/Browning product. It didn't have an exposed hammer.
???

g.willikers · July 13, 2013, 11:02 PM

If Colt never made a Challenger, someone better tell these folks:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/968071831...ENGER_22LR.htm
http://vintagegungrips.net/ao-c38.html
http://www.gunsinternational.com/COL...n_id=100320461
http://www.gunsinternational.com/Col...n_id=100355668

See all the neat things one can learn hanging around here.

James K · July 13, 2013, 11:17 PM

The Colt Challenger was a stripped down version of the Second Series Woodsman. It is not only not a Browning, but it was discontinued in 1955 so references to "Series 80" are invalid both on date and applicability to the Woodman series.

If the Challenger hammer follows down when the slide is dropped, it indicates insufficient sear engagement, or a worn hammer/sear. It could be too light a sear spring and you might try bending the sear spring a bit to increase tension (that will increase the trigger pull). If that doesn't work, check out the sear and hammer. I think all the above parts are still available from www.gunpartscorp.com but they are not cheap, so it is a good idea to examine the current parts so you don't order parts you don't need.

FYI, the Browning Buckmark/Challenger is a totally different gun; the only thing in common is the name. (The Colt "Challenger" was intended as a "challenge" to the Ruger standard automatic. It never came close in terms of sales, though it was a decent gun.)

Jim

privateside · July 14, 2013, 12:26 AM

The trigger pull is the lightest I've ever felt and I've worked in a gun store so... I'm going to try the seat spring first and see if that helps. No telling how worn the springs are. May be better off with all new springs.

James K · July 15, 2013, 07:25 PM

The light trigger pull is the reason your hammer is dropping. The question is why the too light pull. It could be the spring, but more than likely is the hammer notch. Wear might be a factor, but someone may have worked on the hammer and/or sear to lighten the pull. If so, you will be looking at $60 or so in new parts.

Jim

Bill DeShivs · July 15, 2013, 10:46 PM

My mistake.
Thanks for correcting me. The only Challenger I could remember was the Browning.

privateside · July 19, 2013, 08:19 PM

I've got it apart now and it occurs to me that I am using a guide for disassembling a Colt Woodsman (it's predecessor) and maybe that is the issue. I've never seen any other technical drawings for the pistol though so can't be sure.

privateside · July 19, 2013, 08:49 PM

I can't seem to find a place for the slide stop spring. So Confused.

James K · July 19, 2013, 10:10 PM

If you mean an empty magazine hold open, the Challenger doesn't have one. The slide can be locked back manually using the safety, just like its competition, the Ruger standard model.

Jim

privateside · July 24, 2013, 02:36 PM

Ok I finally found the diagram I needed and I think it is the sear spring since everything looks normal inside the gun (no signs of polishing or pinging). I am also thinking about the new recoil spring I installed, specifically how much longer it was than the original and now I'm also wondering if trimming the spring might solve my problem.

James K · July 24, 2013, 07:31 PM

In all fairness, you did mention the recoil spring and I think we all missed the implication of that.

Have you checked to be sure the long recoil spring is allowing the slide to come back far enough to cock the hammer? Obviously, if the hammer never cocks because it never comes back far enough for the sear to engage, it will follow down. Operate the slide manually; if the hammer doesn't cock, you have your answer, removing coils from the recoil spring. It will be a PITA, but you will have to remove a coil at a time until the gun cocks every time.

Jim

July 1, 2013, 12:38 AM	#1
privateside Member Join Date: December 30, 2011 Posts: 19	Colt Challenger hammer drop I thought I had worked the kinks out of my 2nd generation colt by replacing the recoil spring, but apparently something else is wrong. If the slide is allowed to drop free on its own the hammer follows. I'm not sure if it is generating enough momentum to set a round off, but I'm worried it might. Obviously something needs to be fixed before firing again. Any suggestions?

July 1, 2013, 01:10 AM	#2
1911Tuner Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: NC Piedmont/Foothills Posts: 667	Hammer Down Does the hammer follow all the way down, or does it stop on the half cock? (Or quarter cock if it's a Series 80) No, a simple followdown won't fire the gun, but it's hard to tell if it's just following or jarring off...which will cause a discharge. __________________ If your front porch collapses and kills more than three dogs...You just might be a redneck

July 13, 2013, 02:12 PM	#4
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Isn't that the same general design as the Colt Woodsman and maybe the Huntsman? And maybe even very similar to the Browning Challenger and Buckmark? __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

July 13, 2013, 05:37 PM	#6
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	From your description, it's not clear whether the hammer follows down when the gun is fired normally. If it does then, as well as when the slide is let go manually, maybe it's a weak sear spring. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

July 13, 2013, 06:13 PM	#7
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,991	Colt never made a Challenger. The challenger was an FN/Browning product. It didn't have an exposed hammer. ??? __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

July 13, 2013, 12:57 PM	#3
privateside Member Join Date: December 30, 2011 Posts: 19	Same problem as 2 years ago. Thought I might have discovered the problem and ordered a slide stop spring and can't figure out how it should attach or of it even a part needed for my pistol. My eye has returned to the sear spring. Confirmation? Dissenting opinions? I love this gun and want to get her running again so I can teach my wife to shoot with a .22 rather than a .357. Also, there is no half cock as the hammer is internal.

July 13, 2013, 03:00 PM	#5
privateside Member Join Date: December 30, 2011 Posts: 19	The woodsman and huntsman are essentially the same design but do haveajor differences since they wee made over at least a 40 year span. I don't believe the buck mark is related, but I've been told that Belgiun challengers are perhaps superior, but I don't know if that refers to browning made guns or not.

July 13, 2013, 11:02 PM	#8
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	If Colt never made a Challenger, someone better tell these folks: http://www.gunsamerica.com/968071831...ENGER_22LR.htm http://vintagegungrips.net/ao-c38.html http://www.gunsinternational.com/COL...n_id=100320461 http://www.gunsinternational.com/Col...n_id=100355668 See all the neat things one can learn hanging around here. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.” Last edited by g.willikers; July 13, 2013 at 11:10 PM.

July 13, 2013, 11:17 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The Colt Challenger was a stripped down version of the Second Series Woodsman. It is not only not a Browning, but it was discontinued in 1955 so references to "Series 80" are invalid both on date and applicability to the Woodman series. If the Challenger hammer follows down when the slide is dropped, it indicates insufficient sear engagement, or a worn hammer/sear. It could be too light a sear spring and you might try bending the sear spring a bit to increase tension (that will increase the trigger pull). If that doesn't work, check out the sear and hammer. I think all the above parts are still available from www.gunpartscorp.com but they are not cheap, so it is a good idea to examine the current parts so you don't order parts you don't need. FYI, the Browning Buckmark/Challenger is a totally different gun; the only thing in common is the name. (The Colt "Challenger" was intended as a "challenge" to the Ruger standard automatic. It never came close in terms of sales, though it was a decent gun.) Jim

July 14, 2013, 12:26 AM	#10
privateside Member Join Date: December 30, 2011 Posts: 19	The trigger pull is the lightest I've ever felt and I've worked in a gun store so... I'm going to try the seat spring first and see if that helps. No telling how worn the springs are. May be better off with all new springs.

July 15, 2013, 07:25 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The light trigger pull is the reason your hammer is dropping. The question is why the too light pull. It could be the spring, but more than likely is the hammer notch. Wear might be a factor, but someone may have worked on the hammer and/or sear to lighten the pull. If so, you will be looking at $60 or so in new parts. Jim

July 15, 2013, 10:46 PM	#12
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,991	My mistake. Thanks for correcting me. The only Challenger I could remember was the Browning. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

July 19, 2013, 08:19 PM	#13
privateside Member Join Date: December 30, 2011 Posts: 19	I've got it apart now and it occurs to me that I am using a guide for disassembling a Colt Woodsman (it's predecessor) and maybe that is the issue. I've never seen any other technical drawings for the pistol though so can't be sure.

July 19, 2013, 08:49 PM	#14
privateside Member Join Date: December 30, 2011 Posts: 19	I can't seem to find a place for the slide stop spring. So Confused.

July 19, 2013, 10:10 PM	#15
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	If you mean an empty magazine hold open, the Challenger doesn't have one. The slide can be locked back manually using the safety, just like its competition, the Ruger standard model. Jim

July 24, 2013, 02:36 PM	#16
privateside Member Join Date: December 30, 2011 Posts: 19	Ok I finally found the diagram I needed and I think it is the sear spring since everything looks normal inside the gun (no signs of polishing or pinging). I am also thinking about the new recoil spring I installed, specifically how much longer it was than the original and now I'm also wondering if trimming the spring might solve my problem.

July 24, 2013, 07:31 PM	#17
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	In all fairness, you did mention the recoil spring and I think we all missed the implication of that. Have you checked to be sure the long recoil spring is allowing the slide to come back far enough to cock the hammer? Obviously, if the hammer never cocks because it never comes back far enough for the sear to engage, it will follow down. Operate the slide manually; if the hammer doesn't cock, you have your answer, removing coils from the recoil spring. It will be a PITA, but you will have to remove a coil at a time until the gun cocks every time. Jim