Looking to start reloading, need input on equipment

[Merad]

So, I have The ABC's of Reloading as well as Lyman's 49th, after reading through them and doing some research online I think I'm ready to buy some equipment.

Seems like a progressive press would probably be better for my usage - mostly pistol cartridges, at least to start. Planning to start with .38 Spl/.357 Mag and then expanding into .45 ACP and others. Due to my fairly limited space and moderate budget though I'm going to start with a single stage. So what I'm looking at getting:

Lee Anniversary Challenger Kit - because it seems to already include a lot of the little extras that are needed
Lee Die Set - 3 die or 4 die, what's the difference?
Frankford Arsenal Calipers, bullet puller, powder scale, maybe also a tumbler

Anything else that's needed other than the obvious (primers, powder, bullets)?

[TwentyToo]

Sounds like you've got a good start covered pretty well. You might want a powder trickler (the Redding is weighted nicely) with that setup.

You could probably forego the calipers at first. Tumblers are pretty necessary though to clean out residue.

I don't use Lee dies so can't help there.

[AL45]

The Lee 4 die set includes the factory crimp die. That is the set I use for my .45 Colt ammo and it works great. The crimp die can be adjusted from a light crimp to a heavy crimp depending on the load you are working on.

[Misssissippi Dave]

Depending on your budget, you might also look into the Lee Classic Turret. It can be used easily as a single stage press but later on it will allow you to load a lot more ammo per hour. It won't equal the number of rounds you could load with a true progressive press. It might serve you better than a single stage will since you are planning to load pistol ammo for the most part. If you only shoot 100 rounds a week then a single stage is probably the right type of press. The amount of time you have available for reloading is something to take into consideration. When I was young and single I had plenty of time to do reloading. Spending a couple of hours 4 nights a week was easy to do. I could load all the ammo I needed for handguns with a Rock Chucker and also using a Mec 600 Jr. for skeet back then. Things do change over time.

The turret kit will cost you more up front but it might server your needs much longer.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Lee-C...Kit/706046.uts

Pistol ammo seems to go really fast to me.

[Lost Sheep]

You only need three things (physically) to load good ammo.

Press because fingers are not strong enough to form metal
Dies because fingers are not accurate enough to form metal to SAAMI specs
Scale (or calibrated dippers) because eyeballs are not accurate enough to measure out gunpowder.

You also need eye protection and manuals for safety, but physically, you COULD load without them, trusting luck for your eyes and the internet for load recipes.

Everything else can be done without, substituted for or improvised until you can afford to buy good quality gear.

For example, calipers are important, but most commercially made components are sized properly. Until you start monkeying with them.

Tumbler is nice, but I loaded for years without one (just wiping my brass clean with a soft cloth). My brass is prettier now, but shoots just the same.


I will post a list of web sites to read in a minute.

Lost Sheep

[Lost Sheep]

I have compiled a few web sites that seem to have some good information (only some of which came from me).

Go get a large mug of whatever you sip when you read and think and visit these sites.

Sticky-contains much general information.
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=238214

Sticky-contains much general information.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171

New guy considering if/how to get started reloading
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=678589

On the fence
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=678626

"Newby needs help." (A typical new reloader thread). My posts are 11 and 13
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430391

"Just bought my first press. Needs some info tho." (A typical new reloader thread)
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=659358

"I am looking at getting into reloading for the first time" (A typical new reloader thread)
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=658971

"Considering reloading" (A typical new reloader thread)
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=488115

"Interested in reloading" (A typical new reloader thread)
http://rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543

"Is the lee classic loader a good starter loader?" A thread from someone considering the Mallet-driven Lee Classic Loader.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497313

"Lee Classic Loader Kit" My post, Minimalist minimal is the seventh post down.
http://rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107332

"45 Colt question-Lee loader" Another Lee Classic Loader thread
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498638

"Best starter kit?"
http://rugerforum.net/reloading/3325...beginners.html

"To kit or not to kit?" That is the question. My thread. Hard to read apparently
http://rugerforum.net/reloading/33660-kit-not-kit.html

Informed by my 2010 repopulation of my loading bench (If I knew in '75 what I know now)
http://rugerforum.net/reloading/2938...andloader.html

Thoughts on The Lee Classic Turret Press
http://rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=135951


Use what type of scale? (poll)
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448410

Good luck

Lost Sheep

[Merad]

The turret kit will cost you more up front but it might server your needs much longer.

I did see those but it looks like it will bump the price up by about $100. Is the speed difference enough to be worth it?

[Lost Sheep]

The price bump is actually more like $50. (Lee's Challenger lists for $66 and the Lee Classic Turret for $105)

Speed and convenience. A practiced person can easily double his speed if that is important to you.

Look at it this way.

Dies for your three calibers: $100 to $120
Decent scale: $25 to $80
Manual $35 Two, $70.
Priming system $25
Calipers $30
Tumbler 430
Miscellaneous small tools $50

About $330 without a press

$65 for a Lee Challenger (a bit more for the superior Classic Cast) press brings you to $395
$105 for a Classic Turret brings you to $455 (the extra $20 for a couple of extra turrets
A 15% bump in cost for a press that you will keep for a very long time, even if you go to a progressive for one or two of your calibers.

What is $50 in ammunition? 3 boxes? Of course, the turret will cost you more because you will be able to shoot more.

If you do more than 50 to 100 rounds at a sitting, you will appreciate the turret over the single stage, at least for handgun ammunition.

What is the operational difference between a single stage and a turret press?

Short answer:

A single stage can only do batch operation, turret can do continuous operation or batch almost equally well.

Batch operation is slower than continuous operation because with continuous processing you only insert and remove the cartridge case once per cartridge the case going through all the loading steps without ever exiting the press). With batch processing, you handle the case through multiple insert-remove cycles. Thus a Turret can be maybe 2 to 4 times as fast as a single stage.


Long answer:

A turret is a single stage with multiple die stations. That is the only operational difference. But that difference allows a turret to do either continuous operation or batch where a single stage is practical only for batch processing.

Single stages tend to be (but are not necessarily) stronger and stiffer. This is mostly because single stages' frames are usually of one casting where turrets are of at least two parts assembled, and they move, which pretty much requires some clearance. In practice, the difference is vanishingly small. But we still argue over it.

Like a single stage, a turret press does only one thing (operation, like size/deprime, belling case mouth, seat/crimp) at a time, but switching between those is nearly instantaneous. This makes continuous processing practical. (In contrast to progressive presses do multiple different steps simultaneously.)

Batch processing; you can do your batches in 50 as I do(did) or 20 or 100 or 1,000. But the operations are the same. (For pistol) Size/deprime and prime 50 rounds, then switch dies and bell and charge 50 rounds. Inspect the charges in a batch and switch dies. Seat and crimp 50 rounds. Batch is done. Move on to the next batch.

Continuous processing: Put an empty case in the press and do all the operations (size/deprime, bell/charge, seat/crimp) and remove the finished cartridge only when all the steps are done. This saves a lot of handling the cases (at least three insertion-removal cycles) and amounts to a lot of time saved.

If the press indexes the dies automatically, this saves a LOT of time. If you index the die stations manually, it is a little slower, but still much faster than batch processing.

Turret presses can do either batch processing (as a single stage) or continuous processing with equal facility.

I suggest you view the many (almost too many) videos showing the operation of various presses.

Lost Sheep

[Flea21]

Get Dillon Precision equipment.. buy it r8ght the first time around and youll never regret imthe purchase. . Thats how I staryed my reloading and ive been happily reloading from day one.. good luck buddy.

[Lost Sheep]

Originally Posted by Flea21

Get Dillon Precision equipment.. buy it r8ght the first time around and youll never regret imthe purchase. . Thats how I staryed my reloading and ive been happily reloading from day one.. good luck buddy

True, it is hard to go wrong with Dillon. Lifetime warranty second to none, great customer service. If you want or need (or expect to soon) 350-500 rounds per hour and can afford the purchase price it is hard to go wrong with Dillon.

Dillon does not make mediocre presses. They also do not make single stage or turret presses. The Square Deal is very nice. The 550 is manually indexing and preferred by many over the auto-indexing Square Deal for its slightly larger size and simplicity. The 650 is really great for the shooter of larger quantities.

I, for one, do not shoot enough rounds per month to justify the purchase. I only do a couple hundred centerfire for each range trip.

Lost Sheep

[Shootest]

I did see those but it looks like it will bump the price up by about $100. Is the speed difference enough to be worth it?

Short answer is yes, seriously consider the Lee Classic Turret, not the Deluxe Turret. You will be happier longer. As stated above Dillon as well as the Hornady are great but you got to have deep pockets.

[Nathan]

I do not have much Lee equipment. I load Lee for shotshell. Lee stuff makes ammo, but is a bit of a challenge to have good production with.

I started with a Hornady LNL progressive. I'm very happy with it.

For cases like yours, I usually reccomend the Lyman t mag expert kit. There is no junk in that kit. Anything you wish to trade up, could be sold at full value.

[lee n. field]

I did see those but it looks like it will bump the price up by about $100. Is the speed difference enough to be worth it?

Yes.

[Misssissippi Dave]

Dillon progressive presses are nice and work quite well for pistol ammo. I don't believe everyone really needs one. If you are able to purchase enough components to load several hundred rounds a week, you probably can also afford one of their presses. Not everyone loads that much so slower presses make more sense for the average person.

With additional speed comes a higher price and a more complicated press. You can load ammo with a Lee Wack-A-Mole kit for very little money. It is also rather slow going. A single stage press often is faster when you load batches of 50 or more at a time. The turret is faster still. The progressive presses even faster. The price goes up pretty fast as the number of rounds you can produce increases.

Measuring powder methods also can add to the price of things. You can do well with dippers and you can also modify or even make them to match the load you want to use. This is faster than weighing each and every load. There are also powder measures you can mount on a press. These make the powder portion of loading faster. Some are better than others are and the price normally goes up with the better ones. Progressive presses have one that automaticly drops powder each time the the handle is pulled and a case is under the powder measure. This works pretty well in most cases.

You can spend a lot of money on equipment to load ammo or you can spend a lot less. When you spend less you need only more time to make the same number of rounds. If you can make the time available, you can do well with a slower method of loading.

I load with progressive presses now. I didn't always load this way. I don't have the fastest presses because I don't load enough to make them worth it for me. I think it is always better to put money into components to be able to load something rather than putting money into fancy equipment and not have any money left to be able to any ammo. When you have plenty of components and you still feel you need to load more ammo per hour, it will be time to start saving the money to buy the fancy fast press. Some ammo is alway much better than none. I do have a fair amount of components on hand to keep loading ammo until the current shortages are over. At least I think I do.

[Merad]

I'd love a Dillon, but the money and space to put it are a problem.

I'm going to have to do more research on pricing and all. Seems at first glance like a lot of things are still way overpriced right now.

[notlikeyou]

I bought most of my stuff from natchez as at the time it was all typically a few dollars cheaper.

Lee Classic for $95 http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm...4&src=exrbSrch

I would highly recommend starting out with the Lee Classic, being new to reloading is was a good starting point between a single stage & progressive. Cost is a big factor and many will say buy a Dillion and never have to worry about buying again. It's good advice but understanding the fundamentals and slowly learning on a quality starter press will go a long way.

Who knows you may hate it and find that the press collects dust in the garage.
But if you have come this far chances are that your equipment can be upgraded as your knowledge and skill progress.

[Misssissippi Dave]

Buying components in bulk is the cheapest way. Right now they are not very available like they were this time last year. Things will change once again with time. Prices may be higher when things settle down again. They never seem to go down, just up. The best thing to do is to purchase more than you need when you can to lock in a price at the time of purchase. It is a lot like people stocking up on factory ammo to last them for years at a time. I still have some .22 ammo I paid $1.68 for a box of 50 some time ago. Too bad I shot all the really cheap .22 ammo already.

I spend a lot more money on ammo and reloading than I do on guns to shoot. I always wonder when I start thinking about how much I spent on ammo to feed a gun when I compare it to the price of the gun only.

[jeffreyulatan]

Hey I stared on a Lee Classic Loader when I first started reloading. For you who don't remember it's the one where you use a hammer instead of a press.

Good choice on buying LEE especially the challenger kit. From your post you see to have everything to start loading. If I were you I would buy some cheap ammo boxes to store your reloads.

I would also purchase a headspace guage for the calibers you reload, and maybe a drill powered trimmer, because Lee's handball trimmer really sucks balls.

[snooze]

The cartridges mentioned are for handguns. I would want a turret press at a minimum, and a progressive if budget allows.

[TNT]

the Dillon saves time IMO it allows you to do other things you don't have to shoot allot to use it if you shoot like a couple thousand rounds a year then I would say yes I got mine years back and it has been a blessing ever since I left her for 14 months while I went to Iraq and came back the cylinder froze but Dillon has the no BS warranty it follows the product not the owner. I called them they sent some numbers to me I sent it back and two weeks later I got a new press no questions asked. I can not say enough about it, When I satered shooting I was not a high volume shooter but I have other things I like to do as well so in a few hours sitting you can load if you want several hundred rounds. I like its flexibility. and to think I am only 60 miles from Hornady.

[Misssissippi Dave]

The Lee Classic Loader is also called the Lee Wack-A-Mole. It is because you use a mallet to do the work normally done on a press.