Enfield ishapore 2A 7.62 Nato red stripe stock

dice55 · March 11, 2012, 05:45 PM

I recently purchased a 1965 Ishapore 2A India 7.62 NATO cal. Built off the British Enfield rifle, it has a 1/2" x 2" red stripe on the stock vertically above
J the trigger . Does anyone know what this represents?

James K · March 11, 2012, 05:50 PM

On rifles in British service, a stripe like that meant the rifle was not for the standard .303 ammo. It was put on U.S. Lend-Lease guns, both M1917's (where confusion was very possible since the nearly identical Pattern 1914 used .303) and M1 rifles.

I don't know for sure what it meant in Indian service, but it could have meant the same, that the rifle was not chambered for .303.

Jim

Cheapshooter · March 11, 2012, 11:19 PM

Made me go look! No stripe on my 1964 2A

Tikirocker · March 11, 2012, 11:27 PM

The red stripe in Commonwealth service means that the rifle was not fit for live fire exercise and has been downgraded. These rifles had been relegated to drill use only ... a yellow stripe meant the rifle was drill use and could be fired but was worn and a green stripe indicated fit for live fire exercise.

Any Enfield rifle with a red stripe should be thoroughly checked before firing and should also be checked for DP markings which would indicate the rifle was obsolete by Armorers standards and could be dangerous to fire for any number of reasons.

Tiki.

James K · March 12, 2012, 12:51 AM

It could also mean that someone put an old MkIII stock on a 2A.

(FYI, my 2A has no stripe.)

Jim

Tikirocker · March 12, 2012, 01:22 AM

James,

Not all rifles had a red stripe of course ... only rifles that had been downgraded or set aside for drill use were painted with the green, yellow or red stripe. Yes it could mean a rifle had a stock replaced at some time that came from a Drill Use rifle; but the caveat is always there for the new owner to have the rifle thoroughly checked before firing since red means "not fit for live fire exercise" - it has nothing to do with the caliber of ammunition being used.

BTW - The Indians used the same painted system as the Australians and the British - it makes no difference if the stock was a MkIII or original to the 2A - either one could have a red stripe if downgraded from front line service to drill use.

Tiki.

James K · March 13, 2012, 01:00 PM

Maybe I am wrong, but I seem to recall reading the WO instructions that US rifles in .30-'06 (including M1 rifles) were to be painted with a red stripe to indicate that they were not in the standard (.303) caliber. I don't recall anything about drill purpose, just the caliber difference.

Did they intend that all the rifles sent under Lend-Lease were to be used only for drill and never fired? I am glad Hitler didn't find out!

Of course that was in England; I have seen nothing similar for the Commonwealth countries.

Jim

boostedtt91 · March 14, 2012, 03:49 PM

thats good to know, i always wondered what that stripe on mine meant or was for

gyvel · March 15, 2012, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Maybe I am wrong, but I seem to recall reading the WO instructions that US rifles in .30-'06 (including M1 rifles) were to be painted with a red stripe to indicate that they were not in the standard (.303) caliber. I don't recall anything about drill purpose, just the caliber difference.

If I recall, the stripes applied to denote differences in calibre on WWII Lend Lease guns were a red stripe with white stripes on either side, then red stripes on either side of the whites, i.e. "red-white-red-white-red."

Stripes I have seen on surplus Aussie guns are green, yellow, red, white and pink.

Tikirocker · March 15, 2012, 09:56 AM

Gyvel has nailed it ... we are talking about very different marking patterns and they have totally different meanings. It was not just Aussie cadet rifles that carried the red,yellow, green paint but British and Indian drill rifles as well. The white/red/white paint jobs are a different kettle and are certainly what James is referencing, but not what the OP has on his rifle.

Tiki.

James K · March 15, 2012, 10:50 AM

Gyvel may have nailed it, but he didn't nail my L-L M1917 and M1, which had a red (repeat, RED) stripe, no white, green, girlish pink, sexy violet, or anything else. And, again IIRC, the WO order said "red"; nothing about white.

As I said in my first post, I don't know what the marking on that 2A means, but simply mentioned what a similar marking meant at one time.

Jim

gyvel · March 17, 2012, 07:34 AM

Your 1917 is not a No. 1 Mk III from Australia. The colored stripes were Australian markings that I have seen on (mostly) Lithgow No. 1 Mk IIIs that I have purchased. (Although I am not sure what the white or pink paint markings denote.)

As far as lend lease guns, I have had only one with painted stripes, and it was a 1917 Eddystone with the red-white-red-white-red scheme at the area of the magazine.

My other two, a 1917 Remington and an M1 Garand with Brit proofs seem to have escaped the painting process.

James K · March 17, 2012, 08:18 PM

I am sure some of the L-L rifles did escape painting, but I know that most of the folks who bought those guns thought the red paint was ugly and cleaned it off, which could be why it is not often seen today. But I saw crates of M1 and M1917 rifles at Interarms and they all had the red paint stripe behind the front sling swivel. I have no way of knowing what other markings there might have been but the red stripe was the only one I saw at the time.

I have since seen Mk III's with other markings, obviously for other purposes; whether some were Australian, I don't recall.

Jim

OkieGentleman · March 17, 2012, 10:50 PM

The red stripe was put on a number of Remington made M1903 Springfields that was to be issued to the British Home Guard during WWII. This was a warning that the rifle was not chambered for .303. Check the new issue of ShotGun News they have a great article titled "The Guns of Dad's Army". I know this does not match what you said you have in a 1965 Nato chambering.

March 11, 2012, 05:45 PM	#1
dice55 Junior Member Join Date: December 12, 2010 Posts: 6	Enfield ishapore 2A 7.62 Nato red stripe stock I recently purchased a 1965 Ishapore 2A India 7.62 NATO cal. Built off the British Enfield rifle, it has a 1/2" x 2" red stripe on the stock vertically above J the trigger . Does anyone know what this represents?

March 11, 2012, 11:19 PM	#3
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	Made me go look! No stripe on my 1964 2A __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

March 11, 2012, 11:27 PM	#4
Tikirocker Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2007 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 909	The red stripe in Commonwealth service means that the rifle was not fit for live fire exercise and has been downgraded. These rifles had been relegated to drill use only ... a yellow stripe meant the rifle was drill use and could be fired but was worn and a green stripe indicated fit for live fire exercise. Any Enfield rifle with a red stripe should be thoroughly checked before firing and should also be checked for DP markings which would indicate the rifle was obsolete by Armorers standards and could be dangerous to fire for any number of reasons. Tiki. __________________ The Lee Enfield forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27 Surplus Rifle Forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php

March 12, 2012, 01:22 AM	#6
Tikirocker Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2007 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 909	James, Not all rifles had a red stripe of course ... only rifles that had been downgraded or set aside for drill use were painted with the green, yellow or red stripe. Yes it could mean a rifle had a stock replaced at some time that came from a Drill Use rifle; but the caveat is always there for the new owner to have the rifle thoroughly checked before firing since red means "not fit for live fire exercise" - it has nothing to do with the caliber of ammunition being used. BTW - The Indians used the same painted system as the Australians and the British - it makes no difference if the stock was a MkIII or original to the 2A - either one could have a red stripe if downgraded from front line service to drill use. Tiki. __________________ The Lee Enfield forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27 Surplus Rifle Forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php

March 15, 2012, 09:56 AM	#10
Tikirocker Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2007 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 909	Gyvel has nailed it ... we are talking about very different marking patterns and they have totally different meanings. It was not just Aussie cadet rifles that carried the red,yellow, green paint but British and Indian drill rifles as well. The white/red/white paint jobs are a different kettle and are certainly what James is referencing, but not what the OP has on his rifle. Tiki. __________________ The Lee Enfield forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27 Surplus Rifle Forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php

March 11, 2012, 05:50 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	On rifles in British service, a stripe like that meant the rifle was not for the standard .303 ammo. It was put on U.S. Lend-Lease guns, both M1917's (where confusion was very possible since the nearly identical Pattern 1914 used .303) and M1 rifles. I don't know for sure what it meant in Indian service, but it could have meant the same, that the rifle was not chambered for .303. Jim

March 12, 2012, 12:51 AM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	It could also mean that someone put an old MkIII stock on a 2A. (FYI, my 2A has no stripe.) Jim

March 13, 2012, 01:00 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Maybe I am wrong, but I seem to recall reading the WO instructions that US rifles in .30-'06 (including M1 rifles) were to be painted with a red stripe to indicate that they were not in the standard (.303) caliber. I don't recall anything about drill purpose, just the caliber difference. Did they intend that all the rifles sent under Lend-Lease were to be used only for drill and never fired? I am glad Hitler didn't find out! Of course that was in England; I have seen nothing similar for the Commonwealth countries. Jim

March 14, 2012, 03:49 PM	#8
boostedtt91 Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2011 Location: Danville, Pa Posts: 520	thats good to know, i always wondered what that stripe on mine meant or was for

March 15, 2012, 10:50 AM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Gyvel may have nailed it, but he didn't nail my L-L M1917 and M1, which had a red (repeat, RED) stripe, no white, green, girlish pink, sexy violet, or anything else. And, again IIRC, the WO order said "red"; nothing about white. As I said in my first post, I don't know what the marking on that 2A means, but simply mentioned what a similar marking meant at one time. Jim

March 17, 2012, 07:34 AM	#12
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Your 1917 is not a No. 1 Mk III from Australia. The colored stripes were Australian markings that I have seen on (mostly) Lithgow No. 1 Mk IIIs that I have purchased. (Although I am not sure what the white or pink paint markings denote.) As far as lend lease guns, I have had only one with painted stripes, and it was a 1917 Eddystone with the red-white-red-white-red scheme at the area of the magazine. My other two, a 1917 Remington and an M1 Garand with Brit proofs seem to have escaped the painting process.

March 17, 2012, 08:18 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I am sure some of the L-L rifles did escape painting, but I know that most of the folks who bought those guns thought the red paint was ugly and cleaned it off, which could be why it is not often seen today. But I saw crates of M1 and M1917 rifles at Interarms and they all had the red paint stripe behind the front sling swivel. I have no way of knowing what other markings there might have been but the red stripe was the only one I saw at the time. I have since seen Mk III's with other markings, obviously for other purposes; whether some were Australian, I don't recall. Jim

March 17, 2012, 10:50 PM	#14
OkieGentleman Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 1999 Location: OKC Metro Posts: 521	Red Stripe The red stripe was put on a number of Remington made M1903 Springfields that was to be issued to the British Home Guard during WWII. This was a warning that the rifle was not chambered for .303. Check the new issue of ShotGun News they have a great article titled "The Guns of Dad's Army". I know this does not match what you said you have in a 1965 Nato chambering.

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