I wanna shoot somebody - tell me this is OK!

Glenn E. Meyer · February 9, 2006, 12:19 PM

Flame suit on!

It seems to me that we get scenarios where folks really want to get some justification in their reasoning to shoot someone in an ambiguous situation.

The drawing on a cop thread running has that flavor. I've seen it in others and in classes over the years.

It usually goes, what if some badguy stands up in the bank, the Burger Barn, holds my brother at gunpoint but says he is a cop, opens my front door, etc., etc.

There is a wave of reasonable responses that try to shoot only as a last resort but then some folks just want to SHOOT the guy and become angry if you disagree.

So there - flame me.

PS - in FOF - one of the risks is that it becomes a shootfest as it is fun for guys. I know an instructor who threw a guy out of class because he just shot all the times.

iuindy2l · February 9, 2006, 12:48 PM

You know, I have been reading a lot of posts lately, and had a very similiar thought. You're a brave man for coming out and saying it.

GlocksRfun · February 9, 2006, 12:59 PM

I agree, and when I read this topic, I thought this was gonna be another silly senerio where blah blah blah....

IZinterrogator · February 9, 2006, 01:10 PM

Quote:

when I read this topic, I thought this was gonna be another silly senerio where blah blah blah....

I thought I was going to have to get out the dictionary and explain the difference between intent and reaction.

Harley Quinn · February 9, 2006, 01:22 PM

Is a case where you really don't care if you do or if you don't. It should be as easy to shoot as not to, if the case warranted it.

The desire to shoot someone should only come at the moment it is necessary to, not before or after. If you have to think about it, you probably should not shoot.

It should be in your make up and you should be able to handle it, all the statements are ideal. But it is what you need to stay healthy, mentally and physcially.

Empathy is a state where you can be at in certain times, but to do the right thing is the big answer. If there is a doubt you should not.

It takes more training then, actual ability to shoot. The physcial side of it is easier than the mental side.

Goes to a warrior state of mind. As has been said by many persons, it is easy to train a Warrior, the ability is hard to take away. Kinda scary really. They get a purpose, and it is a very thin line between sane and insane. IMO

HQ

Weeg · February 9, 2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer

It seems to me that we get scenarios where folks really want to get some justification in their reasoning to shoot someone in an ambiguous situation.

And here I thought I was only noticing that...And yes, it's pretty scary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer

but then some folks just want to SHOOT the guy and become angry if you disagree.

Yeah...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer

So there - flame me.

Not from me, I agree with you...Some folks just seem to be itching to drop the hammer on a "BG"

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlocksRfun

I agree, and when I read this topic, I thought this was gonna be another silly senerio where blah blah blah....

No kidding...

"What would you do?...A platoon of crack-smokin' dudes invades your house, and they are armed with baseball bats, flamethrowers, and home pregnancy tests..."

.

kingudaroad · February 9, 2006, 02:05 PM

Quote:

I wanna shoot somebody - tell me this is OK!

I like the way you baited these folks into opening this thread. I also have been flamed for telling someone that they were wrong to pre-meditate about the possibility of shooting someone and which caliber would be better for the dirty deed.

Certainly there are those within the gun community that live in this world of fantasy, and hopefully it just remains fantasy.

It does absolutly nothing to help the cause of law abiding citizens who only want the right to defend themselves. Very sad indeed.

Ledbetter · February 9, 2006, 02:20 PM

This is an excellent point and I'm glad someone brought it up.

Training should include when not to shoot or even draw and the making of these split second decisions requires just as much discipline and training as is required to shoot well, if not more.

Finally, shooting someone should be something you devoutly hope, wish and pray you never have to do, for a bunch of reasons, some of them moral, even though you carry every day.

Tdog201 · February 9, 2006, 02:31 PM

You should come and stay with me. They have had several break in's in the area I live in. I carry a walther P99QA .40s&w and they will get it from me if I catch them. The police can't catch anyone in my town unless they fall over them.

Derius_T · February 9, 2006, 03:18 PM

The way I look at it is if anyone has a DESIRE to shoot someone, they have the wrong mindset to begin with and have no need for a firearm.....

I carry a weapon to defend myself as a last resort, if all other options have failed. I hope however long I carry this weapon that I NEVER actually HAVE to shoot anyone. But I also must be prepaired physically and mentally to do so if left with no other option.

If you REALLY, REALLY, are gung-ho to shoot something, go to the range....

svtruth · February 9, 2006, 03:26 PM

I agree with you. I do not have a CCW, nor do I have a ready HD weapon. But I know that if shoothing a threat, person, dog, wild beast that is endangering me or mine (people) is the only remaining option, Bang.
Related to this, what trianing do police get about deciding when to shoot? Certainly the recent death of officer Hernandez in NYC (and numerous other situations in which the shooting officer was not in danger) makes one think that it consists of shoot first, ask questions later.

dtarbox · February 9, 2006, 03:56 PM

Out in public I would only use deadly force as a last resort.
D

urbanassault · February 9, 2006, 03:58 PM

......yes it is okay.......

Harley Quinn · February 9, 2006, 04:10 PM

Are pure bluff. LOL
No matter how many time's you say it, does not make it the truth.:barf:

HQ

NBT · February 9, 2006, 04:22 PM

Yes totally with you.
It's a waste having all these guns and never ever getting to shoot 1 bad guy. We have to spend the rest of our life shooting paper targets and that gets very old very fast.

Guys wanna be heros and need a reason to.

To the BGs:
Break into my house at night with a machete when I have my loaded Sig. I won't regret what happens next.

kingudaroad · February 9, 2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:

they will get it from me if I catch them

Quote:

you are leaving in a body bag

Quote:

. I won't regret what happens next.

I was waiting for some of these guys to show up.

urbanassault · February 9, 2006, 04:58 PM

Its the American way....

Weeg · February 9, 2006, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingudaroad

Certainly there are those within the gun community that live in this world of fantasy, and hopefully it just remains fantasy.

Well said, and hit the (pardon the pun) "bullseye"

.

Eghad · February 9, 2006, 05:29 PM

I think shooting anybody should be the last resort. If you think about it having the means to take a life in that holster in your side is one heavy responsibility and should not be taken lightly.

stephen426 · February 9, 2006, 05:48 PM

While I agree with Glenn's point, I think that a person's hesitance to take a life must be carefully balanced with the ability to make that life altering decision should the need arise. Failure to be in the proper mindset (I am going to protect myself and my family) leads to hesitation. Hesitation may allow the bad guy to grab the gun and use it against you (without any hesitation) or shoot you first. I'm sure many of you saw that video where the police officer kept warning the bad guy to put down the weapon and ended up dying because of his hesitation. I'm not advocating that we play Rambo where we shoot first and ask questions later. I just believe that you have to make up your mind that you will use deadly force when forced to before carrying a weapon.

Topthis · February 9, 2006, 05:58 PM

Funny, but I had replied to a "Scenario" post a while past regarding this same subject. My point was that I do not desire to shoot anybody and that most of the "Scenarios" seemed to be aimed at giving people only two choices...run or kill the BG, it really disturbed me! Then someone posted a response that pretty much said that I was crazy and that most people who own guns really and truley wish that they could shoot someone...CRAZY!!! After that, I took a long vacation from TFL.

Model520Fan · February 9, 2006, 06:04 PM

Thanks, Glenn.

springmom · February 9, 2006, 06:45 PM

I'll bring the aloe vera and ice if you get a flame, but you are absolutely correct. Some people are looking for an excuse to shoot a person, and that is scary.

Springmom

RJay · February 9, 2006, 07:08 PM

You are so very right, there are too many posters living in Never-Never Land. Most times I just laught and pass on.

American4guns · February 9, 2006, 07:10 PM

I dont want a reason to shoot someone,especially in my home,I have to clean up the friggen mess.I dont ask for advice on the best way to kill a bad guy.I think if you have to ask questions like that,you should'nt be carrying guns.I took training specifically for SD,i also have the mindset to shoot if i have to.I only hope that i never have to take another life.Good topic.Nice bait job too lol

February 9, 2006, 12:19 PM	#1
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	I wanna shoot somebody - tell me this is OK! Flame suit on! It seems to me that we get scenarios where folks really want to get some justification in their reasoning to shoot someone in an ambiguous situation. The drawing on a cop thread running has that flavor. I've seen it in others and in classes over the years. It usually goes, what if some badguy stands up in the bank, the Burger Barn, holds my brother at gunpoint but says he is a cop, opens my front door, etc., etc. There is a wave of reasonable responses that try to shoot only as a last resort but then some folks just want to SHOOT the guy and become angry if you disagree. So there - flame me. PS - in FOF - one of the risks is that it becomes a shootfest as it is fun for guys. I know an instructor who threw a guy out of class because he just shot all the times. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

February 9, 2006, 01:22 PM	#5
Harley Quinn Junior member Join Date: August 30, 2005 Location: State of KALI Posts: 1,531	To shoot or not to shoot Is a case where you really don't care if you do or if you don't. It should be as easy to shoot as not to, if the case warranted it. The desire to shoot someone should only come at the moment it is necessary to, not before or after. If you have to think about it, you probably should not shoot. It should be in your make up and you should be able to handle it, all the statements are ideal. But it is what you need to stay healthy, mentally and physcially. Empathy is a state where you can be at in certain times, but to do the right thing is the big answer. If there is a doubt you should not. It takes more training then, actual ability to shoot. The physcial side of it is easier than the mental side. Goes to a warrior state of mind. As has been said by many persons, it is easy to train a Warrior, the ability is hard to take away. Kinda scary really. They get a purpose, and it is a very thin line between sane and insane. IMO HQ

February 9, 2006, 02:20 PM	#8
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	This is an excellent point and I'm glad someone brought it up. Training should include when not to shoot or even draw and the making of these split second decisions requires just as much discipline and training as is required to shoot well, if not more. Finally, shooting someone should be something you devoutly hope, wish and pray you never have to do, for a bunch of reasons, some of them moral, even though you carry every day. __________________ Regards, Ledbetter from thefiringline TFL #4573 NRA for Life Winchester Canyon Gun Club for Life

February 9, 2006, 02:31 PM	#9
Tdog201 Member Join Date: January 8, 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 91	come to my home You should come and stay with me. They have had several break in's in the area I live in. I carry a walther P99QA .40s&w and they will get it from me if I catch them. The police can't catch anyone in my town unless they fall over them.

February 9, 2006, 03:26 PM	#11
svtruth Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2005 Location: Wickford, RI Posts: 108	2 Points I agree with you. I do not have a CCW, nor do I have a ready HD weapon. But I know that if shoothing a threat, person, dog, wild beast that is endangering me or mine (people) is the only remaining option, Bang. Related to this, what trianing do police get about deciding when to shoot? Certainly the recent death of officer Hernandez in NYC (and numerous other situations in which the shooting officer was not in danger) makes one think that it consists of shoot first, ask questions later.

February 9, 2006, 12:48 PM	#2
iuindy2l Junior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Posts: 7	You know, I have been reading a lot of posts lately, and had a very similiar thought. You're a brave man for coming out and saying it.

February 9, 2006, 12:59 PM	#3
GlocksRfun Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 423	I agree, and when I read this topic, I thought this was gonna be another silly senerio where blah blah blah....

February 9, 2006, 03:18 PM	#10
Derius_T Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Location: South West OHIO (boondocks) Posts: 1,337	The way I look at it is if anyone has a DESIRE to shoot someone, they have the wrong mindset to begin with and have no need for a firearm..... I carry a weapon to defend myself as a last resort, if all other options have failed. I hope however long I carry this weapon that I NEVER actually HAVE to shoot anyone. But I also must be prepaired physically and mentally to do so if left with no other option. If you REALLY, REALLY, are gung-ho to shoot something, go to the range....

February 9, 2006, 03:56 PM	#12
dtarbox Member Join Date: July 1, 2005 Posts: 15	Out in public I would only use deadly force as a last resort. D Last edited by dtarbox; February 9, 2006 at 05:23 PM.

February 9, 2006, 03:58 PM	#13
urbanassault Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 364	......yes it is okay....... __________________ Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

February 9, 2006, 04:10 PM	#14
Harley Quinn Junior member Join Date: August 30, 2005 Location: State of KALI Posts: 1,531	Some of these post's Are pure bluff. LOL No matter how many time's you say it, does not make it the truth.:barf: HQ

February 9, 2006, 04:22 PM	#15
NBT Junior member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Location: CA Posts: 134	Yes totally with you. It's a waste having all these guns and never ever getting to shoot 1 bad guy. We have to spend the rest of our life shooting paper targets and that gets very old very fast. Guys wanna be heros and need a reason to. To the BGs: Break into my house at night with a machete when I have my loaded Sig. I won't regret what happens next.

February 9, 2006, 04:58 PM	#17
urbanassault Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 364	Its the American way.... __________________ Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

February 9, 2006, 05:29 PM	#19
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	I think shooting anybody should be the last resort. If you think about it having the means to take a life in that holster in your side is one heavy responsibility and should not be taken lightly. __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member

February 9, 2006, 05:48 PM	#20
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,840	While I agree with Glenn's point, I think that a person's hesitance to take a life must be carefully balanced with the ability to make that life altering decision should the need arise. Failure to be in the proper mindset (I am going to protect myself and my family) leads to hesitation. Hesitation may allow the bad guy to grab the gun and use it against you (without any hesitation) or shoot you first. I'm sure many of you saw that video where the police officer kept warning the bad guy to put down the weapon and ended up dying because of his hesitation. I'm not advocating that we play Rambo where we shoot first and ask questions later. I just believe that you have to make up your mind that you will use deadly force when forced to before carrying a weapon. __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!

February 9, 2006, 05:58 PM	#21
Topthis Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Posts: 863	Funny, but I had replied to a "Scenario" post a while past regarding this same subject. My point was that I do not desire to shoot anybody and that most of the "Scenarios" seemed to be aimed at giving people only two choices...run or kill the BG, it really disturbed me! Then someone posted a response that pretty much said that I was crazy and that most people who own guns really and truley wish that they could shoot someone...CRAZY!!! After that, I took a long vacation from TFL.

February 9, 2006, 06:04 PM	#22
Model520Fan Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: PDR of MA Posts: 164	Thanks, Glenn.

February 9, 2006, 06:45 PM	#23
springmom Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2005 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,823	Well said, Glen I'll bring the aloe vera and ice if you get a flame, but you are absolutely correct. Some people are looking for an excuse to shoot a person, and that is scary. Springmom __________________ I will not be a victim home on the web: www.panagia-icons.net (my webpage) www.nousfromspring.blogspot.com (Orthodoxy) "I couldn't hear you. Stop firing the gun while you're talking!" Frank Drebin, The Naked Gun

February 9, 2006, 07:08 PM	#24
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	You are so very right, there are too many posters living in Never-Never Land. Most times I just laught and pass on.

February 9, 2006, 07:10 PM	#25
American4guns Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2005 Location: PA Posts: 122	I dont want a reason to shoot someone,especially in my home,I have to clean up the friggen mess.I dont ask for advice on the best way to kill a bad guy.I think if you have to ask questions like that,you should'nt be carrying guns.I took training specifically for SD,i also have the mindset to shoot if i have to.I only hope that i never have to take another life.Good topic.Nice bait job too lol

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