.45 Cal Hollow Points

[RedCrosse]

Hello Everyone - Newbie here!

I have a quick question about hollowpoints that hopefully is not too embarrassing :)

I shot a .45 hydra-shok at a scrap piece of 6X6 post, wanting to see what it did.

Upon extracting the bullet, it had travelled 3.5" into the post, but looked almost exactly like it did originally - no expansion or anything.

1) Why didn't the bullet expand the way it does in the commercials?
2) If this bullet went 3.5" through the core of a tree(!) why should I expect it to stop in a body?
Does the answer have anything to do with water - like the name of the product - Hydra making it "shok"?!? The only conclusion that I could reach is that the wood was so dense that it didn't allow any room for expansion. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Tamara]

You answered your own question. No Hydra, no Shok. When the bullet impacted, the cavity in the nose 'cookie-cuttered' a plug of wood, which is non-compressable beyond a certain point and doesn't exhibit much in the way of fluid dynamics. It probably flattened the little post and filled the cavity with a solid plug of compressed wood, transforming your bullet from a Jacketed Hollow Point into a Jacketed Soft Point. Most pistol rounds, especially subsonic ones like the 230gr .45, just don't have the 'wheaties' to deform a soft pointed bullet, so you were left with basically the equivalent of hardball... (softball?)

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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!

[Coinneach]

First, welcome to TFL, RedCrosse.

Second, wood!=flesh. If you really want to see what the HydraShok can do, fire one round at a raw pot roast. It's impressive, to say the least (last time I did it, it left a 9" exit hole).

[This message has been edited by Coinneach (edited May 15, 2000).]

[Dr.Rob]

NOW THERE is a real use for the "budget meat" at the grocery store!

sick and wrong my boy sick and wrong hahahahahahaha

[Coinneach]

Rob, you want to see sick-n-wrong, I'll get an old roast for our next range outing. ;)

[Hard Ball]

Shame on you Cionneach, violating the civil rights of an innocent raw pot roast!

[Dr.Rob]

lol maybe i'll LEAVE that spring unreplaced hahahahahahaha

[branrot]

The test that I hear used is an old phone book soaked in water. I'm not sure why, nor have I ever tried it, but it sounds cheap and easy. Let me know if any of you have any success with it. Around my parts (Miami), there aren't any places you can do this; the ranges don't take too kindly to soaking wet phonebooks downrange.

[jet]

Redcross, try 2 1gal milk cartons place a shirt around the milk cartons secure with tape. This will show what your bullet will expand to. Cheap meat is the best.

[Fraser]

Hollowpoints. HOLLOWPOINTS??? I don't need no stinkin' hollowpoints. I shoot a .45 ACP.

[CCV]

As jet said, take some one gallon water filled plastic jugs, line them up one behind the other, and shoot directly into the first one so the bullet will pass from one to the other. Four jugs are usually enough for a handgun hollowpoint (if it expands).

Have fun.

[Tamara]

CCV,

Should be plenty for a .230gr HydraShok, which has some amazingly reliable expansion. There's a semi-famous stop-motion photograph of one exiting the rear of a 2 inch thick block of orndnance gelatin, fully mushroomed as pretty as you please. It's pretty amazing...

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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!

[This message has been edited by Tamara (edited May 15, 2000).]

[Jim V]

The gallon milk jugs filled with water work pretty well. You could line up about 5 of them and duct tape them together (you may have to fill them with the water after taping). The tape would keep them from knocking the next one in line out of line.

BTY, Welcome to TFL, RedCrosse. Nice of you to join up.

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"

[Ben]

I put some .25 ACP Hornady hollowpoint rounds through my old English Lit book (same thin-pages as a phone book), & it expanded extremely well. I've shot hundreds of rounds through the Beretta 950 and it's been a terrific round. FWIW, it penetrated 800+ pages.

Ben

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Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"

[This message has been edited by Ben (edited May 15, 2000).]

[adad]

Speaking of ordinance gelatin... If anyone's interested in getting some of this stuff to do their own tests, see my post [Link to invalid post] Also, here's a great article on a simplified method to prepare and use the gelatin here. (http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume3/number2/article1.htm)

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[This message has been edited by adad (edited May 16, 2000).]

[BrokenArrow]

Most, if not all, the JHPs on the market now (HS, GS, GD, SXT, etc) are fully expanded by 2 inches.

Some are flatter, some rounder in profile after expansion, some fold back more after full exp, etc, leading to differences in penetration even though recovered diameters may be the same. Or differences in diameters even though pen is the same.

Get what is reliable and most accurate in your gun and don't waste time splitting hairs about gelatin results.

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[CCV]

Tamara and Broken Arrow,

I fully agree with you. Modern hollow points expand reliably and Federal's HS is one of the best. However, I do have an "OLD" box of Norma 230 grain JHP (steel jacketed) and there is no way they will open up. The last time I tried one of them it zipped through ten jugs and finally bounced off of a target board some ten feet beyond the jugs. I picked it up off of the ground and except for a slightly flattened tip (caused by the plywood) it could have been reloaded. (I don't use the ammo for anything, it is just a novelty of the past).

Good shooting.

CCV

[This message has been edited by CCV (edited May 17, 2000).]

[Dave McC]

Way back when, a lot of us used to carry reloads in our 45s. A SWC of 200 gr in front of a moderate laod was goodneffective, and cheap. But now, we've harkened to the sermons of the Reverend Ayoob, and use factory loads.

Actually, no 45 load runs much under 90%, and the big slug starts out at a diameter many 9 mms only dream of finishing up at, so I'd recommend using whatever groups best and /or to the sights in your GM, clone, or overpriced furrin piece.

Mine "Likes" Silvertips,so that's load of choice...

[Will Beararms]

Dave McC:

What you says lines up with Jeff Cooper. He postulates that the .45ACP is the only round that does not have to expand to have the velocity and diameter necessary to inflict a fight-stopping wound.

If the .45ACP expands, it is a cherry on top of the already fantastic sundae.

Funny how we continue to to go all over the map but our destination always ends up at the .45ACP.



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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

[Dave McC]

Will, the old 455 Webley in the days of the Empire had an outstanding rep for stopping people with attitude problems.So did the "Long" Colt 45.

Same concept, a thumb sized chunka lead at a moderate velocity. That requires no trick projectiles, just size and mass.

Mid calibers benefit from trick bullets and high velocity. The 45 does well w/o either.

Decades ago, a local cop we knew had been involved is stopping a robbery/hostage scenario. This rather salty type was a Game Warden and he walked into a general store as a junkie was robbing it with a rifle. Said cop drew his Colt 1909 DA revolver and placed one 45 LC slug center mass. Code 4. The perp had been speedballing, and got off several shots before being hit.All he did afterwards was drop.

[George Hill]

"If the .45ACP expands, it is a cherry on top of the already fantastic sundae."

I like Cherries.
Thats why a load them 230 grain Hydras into my .45s.

[DOT, The HALO Group]

As bullet technology gets better the gap between bullet manufactures is closing. All the leading manufactures produce excellent hollow points and choosing one becomes a matter of personnal choice. Whichever you choose and if you are bored, test them first.


A cheap but long method of testing is to collect(the long part) 24-30 half gallon milk/juice cartons. Line 6-10 up, wrap them with a bungee cord, step back 10 feet and fire. Repeat two more times with remaining cartons. Count the number of jugs the bullet traveled through including where it ended up and average it out. Multipy the average by 1.5 to get the approximate depth in inches. This is kinda fun and will give you a pretty accurate idea of what the bullet will do.


Check out this article "Working Together, Bullet Penetration" [url]http://www.thehalogroup.com/thehalogroup/news.html[url] in the newsletter at the website listed. It has some interesting stuff. My personnel choice for carry in a G-30 are the 200 grain Golden Sabers from Remington, but as back up I keep a box of Hydra Shoks, just in case.

Later,

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www.thehalogroup.com (http://www.thehalogroup.com)

[This message has been edited by DOT, The HALO Group (edited May 19, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by DOT, The HALO Group (edited May 19, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by DOT, The HALO Group (edited May 19, 2000).]