View Full Version : Who's got the best one out there?
Sure Shot Mc Gee
April 15, 2013, 12:19 PM
Since B/P Big Game hunting has been getting more & more popular every year in this State as may be happening in your State also. Especially so in the last 10 years. I've come to realize the season offers a few advantages over the Big Game modern gun season here in Minnesota. Snow cover is one advantage, colder temps is another, and the ease of getting required vacation off to enjoy our passion is a big hurtle overcome by those younger in seniority at the job place. We all know there are on going improvements all the time to our weaponry. Especially so in the in-line categories. So here's my question: Based on what you know to date. If given the chance to spend up to $700.00 for the purchase of one inline rifle. Not because of its being one of the most expensive in the market place but for practicality. Which brand and model would you consider buying? and why?
All comments are welcome. And we all welcome yours.
S/S
Doyle
April 15, 2013, 12:33 PM
You certainly don't need to spend anywhere near $700 on a ML to get a great hunting rifle. There is another thread on this subject right now. You can get a perfectly good T/C Omega, or CVA for about $250 (plus scope).
However, if you really do want to spend $700 the most versitile would be an Encore. When ML season is over just take off the 209x50 barrel and pop on the centerfire barrel and you're back in business.
Wild Bill Bucks
April 15, 2013, 12:43 PM
I own several Encore and other ML's, but my absolute favorite is my Savage ML II. It shoots for about 1/2 the cost of Black Powder. With my loads I get around 2100fps, and 1" groups at 100 yards. I can clean it today or next year, without worrying about corrosives in my barrel.
It simply shoots flatter, farther,and faster,cheaper, than anything out there.
For about $600.00
woodnbow
April 15, 2013, 03:08 PM
if you aren't allowed to use a scope sight I'd say the Savage may be overkill. Most guys struggle to use irons effectively much past 100 yards or so. Ditto the magnum 150 grain rifles. We're talking northern whitetails so 200# or so? Maybe 250# at the outside? Any 50 or 54 caliber shooting a bore caliber bullet will be plenty effective up to 125 yards and beyond with 100 grain loads. Give your pocketbook a break, I've got two T/C Black Diamonds, a 45XR and a 50. Paid 200 for the 45 and 150 for the 50. I have T/C peep sights and fiberoptic front sights. This is the best low light iron sight system I've ever used. all for less than $250 in either case.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
April 15, 2013, 10:35 PM
I had indeed wanted to add comments here on this thread today. But due to today's very disturbing events. I feel its necessary for me to postpone my comments for a time. Sorry.
BirchOrr
April 16, 2013, 12:01 PM
I would suggest a break action in-line. Many advantages there. Also a "no tools" breech plug. T/C leads the pack in this area. (My personal choice). Encore, Pro Hunter or Triumph are excellent.
The CVA's are fine too.
My .02
Birch
noelf2
April 16, 2013, 12:08 PM
Don't rule out the T/C Impact. Great T/C quality for the money, less expensive than the Encore or Omega, but shoots just as well IMHO.
Hawg
April 16, 2013, 05:35 PM
H&R Handi Rifles have been the primitive weapon of choice here for several years. Next year they're doing away with primitive weapons altogether on private lands. I know it doesn't give anything to the question.:D
deerslayer303
April 16, 2013, 07:48 PM
Buy this BuckStalker!! It will put em where you point it! ;)
wap41
April 16, 2013, 09:07 PM
Sur Shot I'm from Mn also and hunt in northern Mn for deer.I think you could do no better than if you can find a used Austin Halleck{they are no longer made]I have a few and they are absolutely dead accurate.You can load them up to 150 grs and with a good sabot a 200 yd shot is possible.The last one I shot with mine was 235 yds and dropped in its tracks.Sighted in with 150 grs of triple seven at 100 yds it drops just a few inches at 200 yds.You can usually find them on gunbroker
airbrnpig
April 16, 2013, 09:22 PM
I will reiterate what Birch told me when I posted (almost) the same thread about a month ago: TC and CVA are both solid manufactures and shoot exceptionally well. So that leaves how much you "like" the "feel" of the rifle in your hands and when it goes bang. Taking Birch's advice I went and shot a few MLs that I hadn't yet got the opportunity to. Going into it, I was leaning towards a TC Encore or TC Optima. I have an older TC ML and recently bought a TC Venture. Love both. What I came away with after my "hands on" experiment was a CVA Accura. Just felt great in my hands, shot phenomenal at 100 yards and that darn hand screw breech plug is amazing. Makes cleaning (and unloading a round after you forgot the pellets) extremely easy. Really liked the Encore as well and shot equally solid. Accura just felt better....Good Luck!
BOSTON 617 STRONG
North East Redneck
April 16, 2013, 10:00 PM
There really is nothing wrong with CVA. I've read all the bad press etc. I have two, both are very accurate, easy to maintain and the price is right. Can I afford a $700 inline, yes, do I see the need for one, no. If your goal is hunting and cleanly killing the game you pursue, I tend towards the $250-$300 guns. I'm not trying to hit nail heads at 100 yards. I feel that most decent guns have the ability to shoot well enough, its up to the shooter to make them perform. If you find a gun you must have that is $700, buy it. But I believe you can save some money and be quite satisfied.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
April 16, 2013, 11:35 PM
airbrnpig: I did look for and found your posting at Doyle's suggestion. I guess you get to be the thread'ee verses the threader this time. Anyhow.
Wild Bill Bucks: I've heard here and there the Savage ML-2 in some States is ineligible to use on big game. Is that a rumor? Why not allowed?
woodnbow: About a month ago I got the chance to check out a T/C- B/Diamond 50 at a local shop. Nice rifle LO~~ng barrel. Bluing left was so so. 150.00 which I thought wasn't too~~ bad and I noticed its shop owner was open to a reasonable offer. Gave it the once over then I took out my little brass CVA bore light and dropped it down its barrel. (I should have known when the shop owner turned and quietly walked away before I took a look there was something amiss?) Bore was so badly corroded that I'm sure if cleaned up as best I could. Somehow its accuracy would be disappointing no doubt. No harm no foul. I just put it back in its rack slot. And walked away and left the shop. Haven't been back since. (I liked that long barrel though. I bet it could indeed reach out and touch something no doubt.)
BirchOrr: I like T/C products. There Omega stainless fits me perfect Sir. Oooo!! she comes up so nicely to the shoulder. (Kind of reminds me of my old 742 carbine. Barrel sights are right there on the mark.)__ Can't say the same for their Encore or a Triumph though. But given an Encore or a Triumph I sure would make due somehow.
I'll catch up tomorrow on the other threads. Thanks for the postings fellows.
S/S
Doyle
April 17, 2013, 07:18 AM
Wild Bill Bucks: I've heard here and there the Savage ML-2 in some States is ineligible to use on big game. Is that a rumor? Why not allowed?
Most of the states that have restrictions against the Savage are like Fl. Here, you can use the Savage ML-2 but you have to use it with ordinary black powder or substitute - no smokeless powder during ML season.
Wild Bill Bucks
April 17, 2013, 08:31 AM
What Doyle says is right. That was another reason for my purchase of the weapon, was it's ability to handle any kind of powder that I needed to use to be legal. I don't get the chance to hunt out of state much, but wanted a rifle that was adaptable to any condition that was required.
I like to shoot a lot at the range, as well as use the rifle for hogs and varmint, and with the combination of smokeless powder, and bulk buying of bullets, sabots, and primers, I can fire off rounds for as little as 70 cents per round, which is about 1/3 the cost of my other rifles. I could probably get by for a little less per round, but accuracy suffers with the cheaper stuff. I hunt in areas that are very thick with brush and timber, and sometimes my target area is no more than a few inches, so I need the exceptional accuracy that I get from the loads that I have worked up.
woodnbow
April 17, 2013, 09:06 AM
Sure Shot, I like mine, good velocity, power and accuracy... I read somewhere that 24"-26" is about optimum for velocity from frontstuffers. A long sight radius certainly helps iron sight accuracy. :D However, I'm waiting on an Investarms .58 Carbine from Deerslayer.. I'll put a peep rear on it and then I think that rifle may be my go to elk medicine.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
April 17, 2013, 09:17 AM
woodnbow: Or so your the one that bought Shawns rifle. Make sure he throws in those balls I just gave him as a freebe. If you want, tell him I mentioned it._;)
NoSecondBest
April 17, 2013, 09:53 AM
I've owned a good many muzzle loading rifles over the last forty years. I've had a good number of side hammers and several in-lines. Out of all of them, the Savage ML2 is clearly the front runner. It is super accurate, requires little or no cleaning using smokeless powders, and it's a lot of fun to develop loads with using smokeless, black, or black subs. I typically get five shot groups around 1-1.5" at 100yds with my better loads. I also get in excess of 2200fps with several smokeless loads. It will easily take big game out to 250yds with a good rest to shoot off of. I'm not knocking the others out there. I've taken a lot of deer with TC's, both in-line and side hammer. I just prefer the Savage over all the others.
deerslayer303
April 17, 2013, 10:43 AM
woodnbow: Or so your the one that bought Shawns rifle. Make sure he throws in those balls I just gave him as a freebe. If you want, tell him I mentioned it._
DOGGONIT!! :mad: I meant to put those things in the box too! errrrr. I totally forgot about them.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
April 17, 2013, 12:03 PM
wap41: Austin Halleck bolt. Gee's their a pretty rifle in wood. Shoot pretty good too. Seen only one on Gun Brokers 499.00 wanted. Not to awfully spendy are they and well within the 700.00 budget. Went and Google'ed it and watched that Utube promotion also. A nice well built rifle they are.
By the way if you ever go North up past Hibbing about 35 mi. Just off HWY 73 I have a place up there (Bear River)
[Where there are more gray wolves than deer!]
NoSecondBest: Since savage no longer makes their muzzle loader. It appears the only one's who will benefit in having one are those who already do. You fellows peaked my interest enough for me to go check around for one. Found a new one in the box selling for $900.00 plus. Now that would be cost prohibited in this house and a tad bit more than the 700.00 budget allows for. Since it was the only one seen advertized for-sale. I take it you fellows who have them won't part with yours. O well._:(
S/S
woodnbow
April 17, 2013, 12:14 PM
Hey! (You want a couple of bucks for shipping Shawn?) :D
Sure Shot, I once owned an Austin Halleck rocklock in a really longbarreled tennessee type rifle. It was a sweet shooter gorgeous wood and well made, but I just couldn't get used to a gun nearly as long as I am. (I'm 6'2", dunno how the vertically challenged handle that... ;-)
DD4lifeusmc
April 17, 2013, 12:43 PM
Well first off I'm a traditionalist, and wouldn't buy an in line.
As to a traditional sidelock.
Go to a store with the biggest selection of brands and models and buy the one that fits you best, when you bring it to your shoulder. And if you will do patched round ball or bullet.
For all intents and purposes, no one is really any better than the other, if you stay with known quality. Uberti, Pietta, CVA, Lyman, or Thompson.
I have a 30+ year old CVA 50 cal percussion sidelock. Shoots as well as any of the newer ones. Several pronghorn antelope, Mule deer and a few elk.
Plus to keep skills up, Jack rabbits in the off season.
wap41
April 17, 2013, 04:16 PM
I guess we're almost neighbors.My hunting land is just a little south of hibbing.[small world huh?] Austin hallecks with a composit stock go for about $3-$400.The ones that have wooden stocks mostly also came also with a composit stock.They early ones have beautiful wood and metal sights and were made in Missiouri.The later ones are not quite as nice and were made in utah.They were made with both blue and nickle finnishes.Wood ones do go around $500 but are well worth it.I'm still in the south waiting for the snow to melt so I can go home.I live on Lake Mille Lacs.We should exchange email address before I go home.
wap41
April 17, 2013, 04:53 PM
PM me if you didn't get the one I sent
Sure Shot Mc Gee
April 17, 2013, 06:33 PM
Yup I got it. And responded.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
April 17, 2013, 07:40 PM
Hawg Haggen:
Next year they're doing away with primitive weapons altogether on private lands. I know it doesn't give anything to the question
Aah!! We all know your a died in the wool Traditionalist boot leggin an extra bump on your score here on my thread Hawg. And that's always OK. But now you got my attention on what you mentioned. Just what is the deal going on down there in Mississippi concerning primitive weapons on private lands? I hope you'll elaborate some on that please?
4V50 Gary
April 17, 2013, 08:57 PM
Want range and a heavy bullet? Get a Parker Hale Enfield and shoot 535 grain minie balls.
woodnbow
April 17, 2013, 09:26 PM
Or find a .45 caliber Parker Hale Volunteer or Whitworth rifle and shoot 500 grain slugs like it's a .45-100-500... :D
Hawg
April 17, 2013, 09:36 PM
Well sure shot for the last few years all that's required has been a breech loading single shot cartridge rifle with an external hammer of a type in use before 1899 with a caliber of 35 or larger. Smokeless powder and scopes of any magnification are allowed. The H&R Handi Rifle in 35 Whelen and 45-70 have been real popular but starting in the 2014 season you can use the same rifles you use in regular season on private lands. Public lands will still have the old rules. We also do not have deer tags and you can take 8 deer per year with three being bucks. The downside is they have to have a main beam of thirteen inches or an inside spread of 10 inches. Personally I don't think we have enough deer to warrant such drastic changes. Did I elaborate enough for you?
Sure Shot Mc Gee
April 17, 2013, 10:51 PM
Did I elaborate enough for you?: Yaw you sure did Hawg. Private land anything goes now. Public Land still requires a break/open single. No tags and 8 deer a yr. per license. 5-doe and 3-bucks. (That's allot of meat.)
A few years of that type of hunting. You'll be lucky to see any let alone get one. I wonder how your politicians managed to get that Ruling passed for the private land owners? (Modern magazine feed rifles used on private lands. During M/L season. Ain't that something._:confused:.)
Hawg
April 18, 2013, 05:28 AM
(Modern magazine feed rifles used on private lands. During M/L season. Ain't that something._.)
It hasn't been muzzle loading season in many years. I think they changed it to primitive weapons when they first allowed inlines with scopes. When I was a kid we had tags and could only take one doe per year and that on just one day out of the season. Now there's no record and nobody knows how many deer you kill.
Doyle
April 18, 2013, 07:39 AM
Hawg and Mc Gee, there is one more part of the MS equation. The "choice of firearm" bill specifically applies to the late-season primitive weapons days. It doesn't appear to affect any of the early-season primitive weapons days.
I've been following this development carefully because my wife just accepted a faculty position at MSU. I'll be moving her up there in time for Summer term and I'll follow sometime later - probably early 2014.
I'm going to be selling my Encore 209x50 barrel and picking up either a .35Whelen or 45-70 barrel (or maybe both :D).
Sure Shot Mc Gee
April 18, 2013, 07:42 AM
Well I guess, all any of us can do is just play by the Rules and move on to enjoy the sport as best we can. (No doubt November 8th 2016 is on it's way)
I got a couple question fellows.
In the inline models. I've read there are some rifles that have a (closed) breech. Just what is a closed breech? Is there a benefit of having one in my rifle?
S/S
NoSecondBest
April 18, 2013, 08:22 AM
A closed breech is where the bolt closes just like on any bolt action center fire rifle and the primer is covered by the bolt. The primer is not exposed to the elements much the same as the primer end of a regular cartridge. I'd guess this is an advantage although I've never had anyone tell me their primer didn't fire due to getting snow or rain on it. Common sense would indicate that getting snow or rain on the primer might cause a problem. Most all of the in-lines now days cover the primer whether by the bolt of by pivoting the barrel into place.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
April 18, 2013, 12:52 PM
Doyle: I'm glade you threaded that personal highlight here. So, "Congratulations on your wife's acceptance to MSU Sir." S/S
Hey Savage guys!!
Just some good news to bring up. I just happened to find a Savage model 10 ML II w/ Accu trigger (new/camo) for >649.00 cash & carry. To those who own or have owned one. Are there any unforeseen problems or disappointments I may encounter if I were to purchase one?
Honestly I don't know all that much on the subject of inline rifles. (as you all probably can tell) But, the versatility of this rifle really intrigues me. I'm relying heavily here on your knowledge and opinions.
S/S
NoSecondBest
April 18, 2013, 02:00 PM
There are NO problems with them that I've ever heard of. Parts are available from several sources such as spare vent liners and breech plugs. You can still get laminated stocks for them from the same source. I believe Savage will make limited runs of these guns every few years but it's just not a big enough seller to carry and catalog inventory all the time. They've already brought them back once due to demand for more and they aren't that hard to build.
4V50 Gary
April 18, 2013, 07:49 PM
The trouble with the Whitworth or Volunteer is that they're prima donnas. You have to spend a lot of time to learn how they shoot and what shoots best in them. That's why I'll take a 500 yard range Enfield (which in the hands of a good shot will reach out to 1,000).
Sure Shot Mc Gee
April 18, 2013, 08:51 PM
Curious. What is the difference between the Savage model 10 ML and their new ML II series. Other than their trigger works. Were there any other changes made?
I've heard here and there out at a rifle range Savage had problems with their first issue of ML 10s. Anyone know what those issues were?
S/S
Hawg
April 18, 2013, 09:01 PM
I know some of the II's blew up.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
April 18, 2013, 09:53 PM
I know some of the II's blew up. Well shoot!! that dampens things a bit no doubt. Would you care to elaborate some on what you've heard Sir?~~~Gee's!! I better not sell my Hawken's quite yet.:o
airbrnpig
April 18, 2013, 10:14 PM
I love the side deals going on! For what its worth, I got to shoot a range of mls b/c the family loves to shoot, have a bunch of mls and the one that no one had - I bought. a tc omega. shot it and traded it to my brother and bought the accurate v2. Again - better fit. Now I wish someone in the family had a savage! Really like the accurate v2 so far. Anyone covert to bh209 with the new breech plug? Trying to talk myself into making the change...but new powder, primers, plug....love the ease of pellets (use 777s).
Cummins - your selling your apex?? You helped me make the decision to go to cva! Ha!
Great thread s/s. You any closer on your pick?
Sure Shot Mc Gee
April 18, 2013, 11:38 PM
Great thread s/s. You any closer on your pick? well I was doing pretty good until Hawg Haggen tripped me up just a few minuets ago. Still waiting for his feed back about the Savage model 10 ML. Then Wap41 hooked me up with a Missouri made pretty Austin & Halleck. But I suspect the Halleck will indeed capture big bucks since its new in the box. (much higher than my budget allows.) I also have another deal on going with another member here. But I don't care to mention who or what its all about (Not quite yet anyways) There are just so many rifles> its really hard to confirm a choice airbrnpig. As anyone would try to do. This will be my first inline and I want to do it right the first time. Thanks for asking airbrnpig.
S/S
Hawg
April 19, 2013, 06:16 AM
Well shoot!! that dampens things a bit no doubt. Would you care to elaborate some on what you've heard Sir?~~~Gee's!! I better not sell my Hawken's quite yet
I just remember hearing about some blowing up. I think its from around the same time period as the CVA's were blowing up.
I did a google search and had a lot of hits but its mostly the same couple of stories.
http://www.shootersforum.com/muzzleloaders/14429-savage-smokeless-ml-blow-up.html
http://www.tonyrogers.com/humor/muzzleloader_blowup.htm
Doyle
April 19, 2013, 07:04 AM
When using smokeless powder in a Savage ML, you have to remember that smokeless powder is MUUUUUUUUUCH more sensitive to relatively small charge weight changes than black powder. If you overcharge by 10 gr of 777 or Pyrodex, no big deal. You might get bad grouping and a bigger kick but no real harm. None of the modern muzzleloaders will be harmed by that kind of change. However, that same overcharge in smokeless powder (or the choice of the wrong burning rate powder) could mean the difference in loosing or keeping your face.
I think this is the biggest reason that other manufacturers have not gotten into the same smokeless deal that Savage did - there are too many idiots out there that would increase their product liability.
Wild Bill Bucks
April 19, 2013, 09:33 AM
randywakeman.com/HowToBlowUpASavage10ML.htm
I disagree with Randy on a few things, and he is very PRO Savage, but I have read several articles on this matter, and I think he is telling it correctly on this one.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
April 19, 2013, 09:41 AM
Holy Mackerel Hawg. By one (1.) grain of power over what He was shooting earlier without any problems caused all that damage to a very knowledgeable shooter.
"Gee's the way I shake I'd have no problems at all blowing one up."
And those gruesome looking photo's of that poor guys hand. Well I guess after reading those two links my being intrigued by the Savage 10ML II _ "is an affair that soured!!"__ But being I have more Irons in the fire than Savage alone. I'm still thinking positive here guys. So fellows here's a another chance to persuade me to follow a more appropriate direction. Perhaps a little info about your experiences in experimentation with the front stuffer you tote? Will cause me to ponder some again for another look see.
P. Script: Thanks Hawg. Appreciate the Links.
S/S
Wild Bill Bucks
April 19, 2013, 12:08 PM
Sorry I can't figure out a way to put the links up where they can be clicked onto. Just not very sharp on a computer yet, but let me say that almost any rifle can be forced to blow up given the right amount of overload.
The reason I bought my Savage to start with, was a guy at the range had bought one, and was shooting it for the first time while I was there with my Encore, getting ready for deer season. I watched him put Vit 110 in the rifle with a powder measure that he had from his black powder rifle. It measured at 90 grains. This was an obvious overload, but as I knew nothing about the guns at that time (and evidently he didn't either) I said nothing to him as he shoved a sabot and bullet down the barrel, and primed the gun. When he pulled the trigger there was an explosion and re-coil that kicked him completely off of the bench, and sent the rifle to the ground, landing on the concrete floor. It was obvious to everyone present that there had been something done terribly wrong, and after examination of the shooter and the rifle, we could not find anything wrong with the rifle. The shooter did not fare as well as his nose was bloodied and had a black eye. At this point he drug the instruction manuel out and quickly realized that he had more than doubled the amount of powder that should have been used for a round through the rifle and he re-loaded it with the 42 grains that should have been used to start with, and the rifle shot flawlessly for the next 2 hours.
After that day I started saving my money to get me one, and have shot no telling how many rounds through mine with no problems. I would be very skeptical about comments made by dis-gruntled ex-employees or people who have recklessly loaded this rifle with loads that are not recommended. As stated before, almost any rifle can be made to blow up if it is not used as intended.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
April 19, 2013, 10:12 PM
Wild Bill Bucks
That sir was a good story. How he managed to double charge the rifle and get away with it. (Somebody was watching over him no doubt about that.)
Question Sir: Do you happen to know if his rifle was a first production or the newer ML II model?
By the way I went and read that link you posted earlier. randywakeman.com/HowToBlowUpASavage10ML.htm The way I interrupted this link. There sure was nothing good said in behalf of Toby Bridges. And that was good of you to point us to that link.
Well Sir. Since you actually seen a serious mistake made in charging a Savage. And the result's were no where's near Mr. Bridges outcome with a single grain overcharge as he claimed. That sir stirs my curiosity. Do I believe you? or Toby Bridges?~~~~ I'm going with you!!
The way I see it. If Savage did make a product that was truly easy to destroy by its owner as Toby Bridges implied. Savage would be sued to no end. And the product would be gone from the market place. But that hasn't happen with their Savage model 10 ML II.
I was a little forward with the language I used here. I apologize, as I'm old & Old School. The older I get the harder it is for me to show some of that Northern Charm I once had._:o
Hawg
April 20, 2013, 12:42 AM
I don't like Toby Bridges but Randy Wakeman is the worst thing to happen to bp in 900 years. Don't ask me to elaborate sure shot.:D
mykeal
April 20, 2013, 06:51 AM
^Hear him. He speaks wisely.
Doyle
April 20, 2013, 10:04 AM
The way I see it. If Savage did make a product that was truly easy to destroy by its owner as Toby Bridges implied. Savage would be sued to no end. And the product would be gone from the market place.
I'm thinking that the reason that hasn't happened is because:
1. A ML rifle in itself has a fairly narrow range of potential purchasers.
2. The vast majority of those in that narrow range that did purchase the Savage are relatively competent shooters who won't do stupid things.
That leaves a relatively small population of potential idiots who actually purchased this rifle. Remember, the chance of something going wrong and resulting in a lawsuit always goes up with the number of "opportunities" for something to go wrong. With this limited population of potential opportunities, Savage has probably just been really lucky.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
April 20, 2013, 10:08 AM
Savage model 10ML II:
Hmm? lol Whats that old proverb: There's two sides to every story. There sure is on this one. There seems to be so much controversy concerning the idea of smokeless use in one particular B/P riffle. I like the concept but the write ups are so confusing. Then there's that other thought rattling around up there. Why hasn't other manufactures done the same? I guess it all boils down to: Do I take the plunge? or don't? 650.00 would be my investment. But, there's that guy down there in Mississippi that wouldn't steer me in the wrong direction. And by far and away much more learn-ed than I will ever be concerning this subject. So maybe a second look is needed else where at a different brand. The Omega stainless is a fine rifle and well within the budget. As far as I know there hasn't been any written problems coming to light in its ownership? And that Encore would be perfect. But it doesn't quite fit me right> at the shoulder. Or I could save the money and enjoy those two old T/C woodsy pals I already have cased in the closet. Gee's decisions / decisions? Near a thousands hits and 50 replies later. And I'm no closer to a choice than the day I started this thread_:o But I have indeed met some friendly fellows because of this thread. That indeed is a (1. plus.) I didn't expect. S~o~o~o.
Doyle: Your probably right on that prior thought. Knowing my behavior with those other modern rifles I own and reload for. I push everyone of them to their Max and on some beyond Max. So I wish I were. But in hind sight I'm not a good candidate for one of your favorites. (Savage Model 10 M/L II) Knowing my luck I'd try to push mine and pay the consequences. I could handle a black eye or bloody nose perhaps enough recoil to knock me on my butt. But the possible lose of fingers, eye, or worse. Dims the wanting of ownership here.
Hawg
April 20, 2013, 11:11 AM
there's that guy down there in Mississippi that wouldn't steer me in the wrong direction. And by far and away much more learn-ed than I will ever be concerning this subject.
Don't take my word for anything. I'm just tellin what I heard and found a couple of links. Do your own research and make up your own mind. When it comes to inlines I don't know diddly.
BirchOrr
April 20, 2013, 01:28 PM
Don't ask me to elaborate
I couldn't agree with Hawg more! Randy is very opinionated. All of us here have an opinion drawn from our own experience and preference. That's fine... we like what we like.
When you are supposedly do "professional" testing of different products, the opinion of the tester should not be a factor. After all, the reader is looking for honest advice... not an opinion. Randy bad-mouths certain products "just because" he doesn't like them. No real rhyme or reason, just that HE doesn't like them. Not at all how a professional should respond. Thus, I don't take anything he says seriously.
Birch
NoSecondBest
April 20, 2013, 02:11 PM
I've dealt with him before. If you don't agree with him or question him (politely) he can be very rude with his reply. His social skills are non-existant. He does go by opinion and opinion only. If you go to his web site and read his older articles he is in complete contridiction with his current opinions. I honestly don't know how he got to where he is. He also likes to say "we" a lot to add the inuendo that everyone agrees with him. I don't think he's likeable in any way. Seems like a lot of people feel like I do about him. I think he's a "legend in his own mind".
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