7.62 Nagant revolver

[essohbe]

Besides the soviet ammo I can shoot .32 S&W in it too can't I?

Better make sure :o


I know there's the .32acp cylinder replacement and I might grab one but it's kinda "meh" for now...

[kraigwy]

You wont be able to shoot unmodified 32 S&W without changing the cylinder.

I reload for my Nagant using 32-20 brass but the rim is thicker on the 32s, I had to shave about .080 thousands off the base of the rim. Worked fine after that.

Of course witht he 32-20s being shorter you don't get the gas seal, but its not like you need a lot of velocity to poke a hole in a paper target.

[kilimanjaro]

Our local shop here has 7.62 Nagant ammo, not quite 50 cents a round. 32-20, however, is on order for several weeks now.

I was considering a cylinder conversion, but Nagant ammo seems to be in good supply.

[noelf2]

32 s&w and 32 s&w long will shoot fine out of an unmodified Nagant revolver. The brass will bulge/split, so it won't be reloadable. If you aren't reeeeealy into reloading, you will not like reloading for a Nagant revolver. Royal PITA.

[McShooty]

I am trying to get my brain around the idea of cartridges that shoot fine, but the cases come out bulged and split.

[jonnyc]

I've have shot plenty to .32 S&WL in my Nagant without any problem. It isn't that accurate, so I don't use it anymore, not since I have acquired a decent stock of 7.62 Nagant ammo. I found that most of the .32 cases bulged a little, and maybe 25% split. Not really a problem for those pistols. My friend easily reloaded those cases that did not split.

[boostedtt91]

I just buy 7.62 nagant ammo that is made to shoot out of it and use the gas seal like its meant to be used. For a couple $ more you can just the real ammo and re-use the brass. The 32 S&W Long is only like $5 cheaper everywhere i saw so not really saving anything

[noelf2]

Boosted how do you reload Nagant brass? How do you crimp for the gas seal, or do you remove some brass and sacrifice the gas seal? What dies are you using. The only ones I can find are to resize 32-20 brass.

I shoot hotshot/.prvi, Russian military surplus, and reloaded .32 s&w long in my Nagant. The cheapest for me, by far, is the .32. The most potent is the milsurp ammo, which is still cheaper than new hotshot/.prvi ammo.

[Cheapshooter]

Boosted how do you reload Nagant brass?

I have the same questions as I am getting ready to get my loading bench back in operation. There are several threads in the reloading section of the forum about it. Maybe Boosted could go into detail about it there.I don't shoot my 1895 a lot, so whatever ammo I find has worked OK. I just got 140 rounds of the Russian stuff that SOG has for about $5.00 per box of 14. Don't know how it shoots yet. One thing I noticed is that it doesn't have the gas seal "flair,but rather a long taper over the bullet with two "peen" marks opposite each other at what appears to be the bullet base.

[FrederickDav]

I tried .32S&W in my Nagant. It took forever to clean the lead off everything! I even felt the splatter! Not a fun time. Won't do it again. If I can't find the correct round for the weapon- it stays home.

[noelf2]

I tried .32S&W in my Nagant. It took forever to clean the lead off everything! I even felt the splatter! Not a fun time. Won't do it again. If I can't find the correct round for the weapon- it stays home.

I don't experience leading with new or reloaded .32 s&wl. Such a slow moving lead bullet shouldn't do that, but depends on the ammo and lead hardness I guess. If you are actually looking for Nagant ammo, try J&G or SOG for milsurp ammo or AIM Surplus for hotshot or .prvi ammo.

[boostedtt91]

Im not reloading these yet and im not sure if im going to. It seems like its alot more of a hastle than what its worth. I just keep my brass incase i change my mind someday or to sell to someone who does reload them. For how little i shoot it, ill just buy commerical ammo or russian ammo if i can find it since it shoots so much better and has alot more penetrating power

[noelf2]

I just keep my brass incase i change my mind someday or to sell to someone who does reload them.

Same here. Recently, a bunch of imported milsurp nagant ammo has been imported and a few places carry spam cans of it. I picked up a can of 1092 rnds of the real Russian milsurp so I will be shooting the nagant a lot more. Cost was about 1/3 less than buying boxes of Hotshot or .prvi, but they are berdan primed and not reloadable by me.

[boostedtt91]

few places carry spam cans of it.

I have seen that recently, at least i have seen one of them. Where did you get it and what did it end up costing you for a can of it? So its the real russian stuff where the bullet is actually half the way down the case?

[kilimanjaro]

Try SGAmmo.com, seem to remember seeing case lots there last week. If not there, ammoengine.com may help to search.

[Cheapshooter]

http://www.southernohiogun.com/ammo/russian-7-62-1895-pistol-ammo.html

This is the stuff I bought from SOG. $.95/box of 14 rounds, but they also say $4.74 per box when ordering 78 in a sealed can.
Just don't shoot the Nagant enough to buy a that much, and I don't know how well it shoots. When I get a chance to shoot some i might order another couple hundred rounds.

Something to note from my previous post.
One thing I noticed is that it doesn't have the gas seal "flair,but rather a long taper over the bullet with two "peen" marks opposite each other at what appears to be the bullet base.

[boostedtt91]

i just ordered a couple of the 14 round russian surplus boxes from JGsales which was the cheapest i found them. Ill see how they look and shoot when i get them. They kinda look from the picture as the same as PPU's

[noelf2]

So its the real russian stuff where the bullet is actually half the way down the case?

The stuff with the bullet halfway down the case is Russian target ammo, not military. This military ammo is hotter than the yellow box target stuff, or at least seems to be. I don't have a chrono so I can't prove it.

[kraigwy]

Boosted how do you reload Nagant brass?

I'm not Boosted, but I do load Nagant Brass.

I use Nagant Dies sold by Lee. I don't have a carbine sizing die so I lightly lube the cases with RCBS case lube.

I then deprime and size the cases. I use the powder charging and belling die for the Lee set to slightly bell the cases, then insert the primer. I drop the powder though the Lee die.

I then move the case to the seating die, seating the bullet flush with the mouth of the case.

The crimping die then crimps the case after I set it up to match the crimp of factory bullets.

An additional step I use, in insure a tight bullet and smooth chambering, is to use a M1 Carbine Die taper crimping die to put a slight taper crimp on the case. This helps in gripping the bullet.

I also load modified 32-20 cases. The only difference is that I trim about .010 off the back of the rim of the case. I've found that if you barley remove the markings on the back of the rim, its enough for the brass to function in the Nagant Revolver.

I tried Trailboss but I didn't like the accuracy I was getting. I now use 231. I adjust the powder charge to give me the same velocity of the factory ammo.

Here is a target I shot with the above loading procedure fired at 15 yards (45 feet). Single action, I can't hit poop when I shoot that sucker double action with its 437 lbs double action trigger.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kraigwy/pentest/websize/7%20rds_%20factory.JPG

[Bigdog57]

Finding factory ammo scarce and too spendy a few years back, I got the Lee dies and .32-20 brass. The Nagant load is one of the easiest to load for - once you get past the desire (there's no NEED for it) to try doing the orignal crimp for gas sealing. No other revolver uses gas sealing, the Nagant does not need it either - not for range shooting and plinking. I seat the bullet normally, so as to clear the cylinder front. No need to seat all the way inside the case.
My revolver works fine with .32-20 brass, no shaving of the rims needed. A buddy casts our bullets, but I also bought several hundred Magtech .32 bullets. With some 300 brass cases, I expect the low pressure to enable them to last as long as will be shooting.
Our pet load clocks some 750 FPS, so it's no barn burner.....

Works for me, and it's CHEAP.

[noelf2]

Well it's a Nagant dadgummit, and I want the gas seal !!! If I wanted a revolver without a gas seal and still have a 437 pound trigger pull, I'd a bought a Webley Mark IV. :eek:;)

Kraigwy, can you elaborate more on this part? The crimping die then crimps the case after I set it up to match the crimp of factory bullets.

Match the crimp of Nagant factory ammo? What kind (Hotshot/prvi funny crimp or the Russian tapered crimp)? Or just a taper or roll crimp that is enough to allow the full length Nagant brass to slip enough into the cylinder to allow a gas seal? Do you have any issues with cracked case mouths because of the severe crimp that Hotshot/prvi/Fiocci puts on the factory ammo? How many reloads can you get from one case and still salvage a gas seal?

[kraigwy]

I take a factory load and use it to set the crimp on the Lee Factory Crimp die.

Then when I get the bullet seated flush. I but the round in the Crimp die, which leaves the same crimp as you have on the factory bullet.

That only works with Nagant 7.62X38R brass. I just seat the bullet on 32-20 brass where it fits the cylinder.

[gyvel]

Maybe my case is an isolated incident, but my experiences with the 7.62 cartridge have been with Fiocchi and evey one that I have fired has split the case mouth, making the cases unusable as is for reloading. :mad:

I found that I had to trim the cases past the split to make them suitable for reloading, but, with the shortened case, the gas seal feature is lost.

And, before anyone asks, I have shot these out of several different era Nagants in my collection, including a Polish Radom, with the same results.:(

[boostedtt91]

thats the way i look at it. The gun is a gas seal revolver so why shoot ammo that doesn't use the gas seal. Kinda defeats the purpose of shooting the gun in my eyes.

[Webleymkv]

Well it's a Nagant dadgummit, and I want the gas seal !!! If I wanted a revolver without a gas seal and still have a 437 pound trigger pull, I'd a bought a Webley Mark IV.

In defense of the Webley, while the trigger on my Mk. IV is certainly not up to that of my S&W's, it's still worlds better than any Nagant I've ever tried.

[noelf2]

Sorry Webleymkv. I didn't mean to offend. I like the C&R guns as they are, for a historical perspective. I wouldn't change a thing about a Webley, or a Nagant. They are what they are, and that's what makes them interesting. I don't have any Webley's, but they are on my list!

[Webleymkv]

Sorry Webleymkv. I didn't mean to offend. I like the C&R guns as they are, for a historical perspective. I wouldn't change a thing about a Webley, or a Nagant. They are what they are, and that's what makes them interesting. I don't have any Webley's, but they are on my list!

Oh I wasn't offended. My Mk. IV certainly doesn't have the best DA trigger in the world, but it is at least "useable" in my estimation. A Nagant's DA trigger, however, is only useable at bad-breath distance and would be very difficult to shoot well with even for experienced revolver people.

[raftman]

I for one think Nagant DA triggers aren't as bad as they're often made out to be... or maybe I have unusually strong hands. I've had a couple of Nagants and think the DA trigger is significantly better than some of the new production revolvers I've owned (specifically models 85UL and 94).

[jimisbell]

I just ordered one and I found on UTube some instructions on improving the trigger pull that I will try. Just cant say no to $99 for a really nice pistol with holster and cleaning kit. I also bought 140 rounds of ammo at $0.36 a round.I am, however, wondering why a 9mm silencer was used on a 7.62mm weapon.

[noelf2]

I am, however, wondering why a 9mm silencer was used on a 7.62mm weapon.

It was/is readily available, and it works.

[jimisbell]

Why does it work? Would an 8mm silencer work better? Would a .45 cal silencer work as well?

[noelf2]

Why does it work? Would an 8mm silencer work better? Would a .45 cal silencer work as well?

Let's get back to the "availability" part. 8mm might work too, but can you find one? My guess is that .308 (or close) and .355 (or close) isn't a big difference when considering the properties of a silencer. We're only talking about 5 hundredths of an inch (or so). 9mm works.

[RAnb]

If a person is buying a silencer, then the 9mm models are probably the cheapest ones that will work on the 1895 Nagant. Since minimizing bore size is one of the keys to suppression, the 9mm will work okay as it was designed for a .355" bullet and the Nagant is a .310" caliber. Using a smaller can designed for the smaller powder charge in the Nagant cartridge would probably work better, but the market for a can made for that revolver is very small.

Ranb

[jimisbell]

But with near new Nagant pistols selling for under $100 and the ammo at 33 cents a round, the market could get bigger !! LOL

[noelf2]

Not likely. There's never a big market for silencers.

[akguy1985]

one of the guys on my state gun forum who is a silencer dealer has a suppressed nagant. Its cool looking.

[bixbyru]

Hello all -

So the 1895 Nagant is still actually in service, both with the Russian Railways combine and with numerous northern rural police forces.

Now suppose that Oleg the Angry, a weight lifting petroleum worker In Krazny Sigorsk has a little too much водка and decides to break a few bones - none of 'em his own.

Presumably the local constable isn't going to yell "Stoi!" and threaten him with some anemic Prvi or Fiocchi target round.

Where do these Russian coppers get their ammo, and who makes it?

Thanks,

Russ

[noelf2]

Who knows where they get it. But you can get much stouter 7.62x38 military surplus ammo from most milsurp sites. AIMSurplus has it I think. I bought a case of it a while back.

[bixbyru]

Indeed - I was just wondering what the current users use. Hmmm...

[deerslayer303]

I've only shot Prvi out of mine. They punch holes in paper, milk jugs, soda cans, clay pigeons, and ring plates just fine. if Oleg the Angry gets fired up, I assure you the Nagant revolver is the LAST thing I'm going for. Ole Oleg will have a date with 230grs of silvery goodness :D So the Prvi works well for my use. haha

[SteveBonning]

Prvi Partisan makes modern ammo for the Nagant revolver. I have some, think I got it from Sportsman Guide.

[gandog56]

Heck, the stuff has spam cans of the real stuff available. But I may be one of the few guys that not only has the Lee dies, but an actual RCBS 7.62 Nagant SHELLHOLDER (No longer in production) . The Lee dies use a 32-20 shellholder and they do NOT fit on the used hotshot commercial brass I use. The rim of the brass is too thick for the Lee shellholder. As to the guy who says that he takes a real round of 7.62 Nagant and uses it to set his dies for a like original round crimp, I need to see if that is good for the Lee dies, since they use a shorter case and disable the gas seal function. I know that the bullet seater plug from the Lee set won't even seat the bullet deep enough without some modifications. I wonder if he has the old RCBS die set? (also no longer in production)

[kraigwy]

Lee dies for the 7.62X39R DO WORK, I've loaded hundreds of rounds using the Lee dies.

In using 32-20 brass you do have to trim the back of the rim about .10 but they do work. The 32-20 brass is too short to get the gas seal system on the Nagant to work, but the ammo works.

I bought a bunch of ammo that came with boxer primers so I have a good supply of brass. I use the 32-20 in a pinch.

But the Lee dies do make some nice loads.

I shot this target at 15 yards with ammo loaded with the Lee dies.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kraigwy/pentest/websize/7%20rds_%20factory.JPG

[gandog56]

The real problem is not a single one of my reloading manuals have recipes for a real Nagant cased reload. I have to start from various recipes I can find on different boards.

[Romeo 33 Delta]

Kraigwy ... I've been using a 115gr RNFP in my .32-20 cases, but recently fell into some Fiocchi 7.62 X 38R brass and not using it is killing me. What bullet are you using?

Thanks!

[donkee]

To increase the fun factor of shooting my Nagant revolver I no longer load smokless cartridges for it. I have gone to black powder using 100g cast lead bullets. Makes a neat boom and lots of smoke. Fairly accurate too.

I use the LEE die set and Starline 32-20 brass. I modified my revolver to take the 32-20 brass as is so no shaving off a couple thousandths off the brass.

I'll do a video of it next time I take it out. It will probably be a while though.

[kraigwy]

Kraigwy ... I've been using a 115gr RNFP in my .32-20 cases, but recently fell into some Fiocchi 7.62 X 38R brass and not using it is killing me. What bullet are you using?

I use a 90 grn .311 RN bullet from a Lee mold (actually throws 94 grans). I don't know what number, can't read it.

I size smaller and use the same bullet in my 30 cal Carbine. Plus my wife just bought a 32 H&R which I found I can use the same bullet.

As mentioned you can use the 32-20 brass. I chuck them in a lathe and trim off .010 off the back of the rim. You also have to run it through the sizing die to get it to work. Works but I don't like it. Its too short and the gas seal doesn't work.

I bit the bullet and bought a bunch of factory ammo with re-loadable brass, works better.

Another hint on loading the 7.62X38R. I use my carbide 30 cal Carbine die to size the brass. its .004 larger then the Nagant brass, (M1 Carbine base is .356, the Nagant base is .352). It doesn't seem to matter in my Nagant cylinder.

[Romeo 33 Delta]

Kraigwy ... well I just put up some dummy test rounds with the Fiocchi brass. Did like you suggest ... .30 Carbine FL die.

Then used a Lee powder-thru die to flare the case mouth. (had it lying around)

Then modified a spare .32-20 Seater die I had wasting away by unscrewing the stem cap and dropping a 3/4" long 1/4-20 Roundhead Machine Screw into the end and screwing the cap down tight (you have to now set the depth of seating with the die lock ring instead of the stem cap, but that's OK). The bullet I ended up using was a 100gr, .312" plated RNFP that I had for my H&R.

Then dug up an old .25-20WCF seating die that I had laying around from some other project I pirated the other dies for and that was just PERFECT for putting just the right amount of chamfer/taper on the case mouth. A nice, little bit; nothing like the "factory" rounds so I hope for a decent case life.

Then put the .30 M1 die (without decaping pin) back in the press and just ran the loaded round up into it about half the length of the "neck" area (as otherwise the case would stick with about an 1/8" not fitting into the cylinder). After that last, little operation the loaded rounds drop right into the cylinder and the case mouths snug up without any resistance when cocking the pistol.

Thanks for the tips ... now I can swing both ways on this cartridge!:D

[dmmccarter]

Here is something I posted over at Castboolits...

I have been working on a gas seal load that would replicate the velocity of a Military Surplus Nagant 7.62x38r round for a couple of months and thought I'd share what I found.

Boolit: Lyman 311008 FN 115GR
Case: PPU 7.62mm Nagant
Powder: Trailboss 5.1gr C
Primer: CCI 550
Dies: Lee M1 Carbine (with custom seating), Lee Universal Decapping, Lee Universal Expander (with custom flare die), custom crimp die.

Data: (taken from 10ft from the muzzel)
Test Round: 113 GR Cast Boolit Gas Seal
Hi Vel: 974
Low Vel: 834
Ave Vel: 907
Ext Spread: 140
Std Dev: 36
+1SD: 944
-1SD: 870


Basline: 108 GR Military Surplus Gas Seal Round
Hi Vel: 937
Low Vel: 846
Ave Vel: 900
Ext Spread: 91
Std Dev: 30
+1SD: 931
-1SD: 870


Chart:
http://i44.tinypic.com/30bea75.png

Let me know if you have any questions, if this is useful for you and if you have any feedback.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2rpu0ev.jpg

Here are the dies in order of operation...
decapper, expander, <prepared case>, M1 seating die, custom crimper, M1 sizing die.


http://i42.tinypic.com/dpde9s.jpg

Here are three finished rounds and a cast boolit...

[kraigwy]

Just for your information, the Russian Nagant Revolver and its 7.62X38R ammo sucks for shooting bowling pins.

But its still a lot of fun to shoot.

[jimbob86]

I just ran some of the Prvi 98 gr stuff over my chrony ...... that stuff is atrocious ...... AVG MV was 659 ....... velocities were all over the place.... a low of 485 (eeek! squib!) and high of 702 ...... I did manage one 4" 7 round group from 10 yards..........

I just KNOW that I can make better ammo than that!

[JD0x0]

I just ran some of the Prvi 98 gr stuff over my chrony ...... that stuff is atrocious ...... AVG MV was 659 ....... velocities were all over the place.... a low of 485 (eeek! squib!) and high of 702 ...... I did manage one 4" 7 round group from 10 yards..........

I just KNOW that I can make better ammo than that!

Yeah, that sounds pretty terrible. I think the standard loading was a 97gr @about 1070 fps. And the nagant revolver was supposed to be fairly accurate.

Edit: found this on wiki

Most commercially loaded ammunition for the Nagant, including Fiocchi and the "СССР"-marked yellow box imports, are target ammunition, and do not have great stopping power. The low power of these rounds has given the Nagant a reputation as an underpowered sidearm. However, the original military ball cartridges fired bullets in the 6.5 g (100 grains) range at up to 330 m/s (1,100 ft/s), making them close to the .32-20 Winchester and .32 H&R Magnum in power. These original military ball rounds are very hard to find and are considered collector's items.

[jimbob86]

I just KNOW that I can make better ammo than that!

And I DID!

Just a few rounds to prove to myself I could do it -

100gr .312" XTP over 8.5 gr H110 gave me 1026 f/sec and the cases dropped out of the cylinder without using the ejection rod do-hickey.

115gr .314" LFN of uncertain parentage over 8.5 gr H110 gave me 980 f/sec and lots of lead in the barrel ....... ejection was stickier, too ......

Recoil was much stiffer than the PPU target loads, but I kept all the rounds on a paper plate at 30 feet, offhand, even after the plate fell backwards at a 45 degree angle ......

I'll be making more and shooting off a rest for groups, when I get some more time ..... work has me swamped!

[jimbob86]

OK- I have a few minutes .....

I have read elsewhere on the net that .309" bullets should be used.

I slugged my barrel (put some penetrating oil in the barrel and pushed a .314" lead bullet through it) and got .309" land to land and .311" groove to groove. I decided to go with a .312 bullet.

I also sized the loaded rounds like dmmccarter did, but used the Lee Nagant sizer instead of the M1 sizer. Before I sized them again (after seating the bullets), they would not chamber ...... I am wondering what size the bullets were when they went into the barrel ........

Thoughts?

[gandog56]

I just ran some of the Prvi 98 gr stuff over my chrony ...... that stuff is atrocious ...... AVG MV was 659 ....... velocities were all over the place.... a low of 485 (eeek! squib!) and high of 702 ...... I did manage one 4" 7 round group from 10 yards..........

I just KNOW that I can make better ammo than that!

Heck, I can RELOAD better ammo than that!

P.S. if you don't reload, save me those cases!