Brass hulls not allowed

[darkgael]

I had a somewhat unpleasant/disturbing/unsettling experience yesterday at the Trap range. I was told that I could not use some brass hulls that I'd reloaded.
Background: I have a few older SXSs. (Ithaca, Parker, LeFever) that I take to the trap range maybe once a year or so. I load up brass hulls made by Rocky Mt. Cartridge for use in these old guns. I use a minimum load at low pressure (SR 7625 - 23 grains under 1 1/8 oz shot with a 12S3 wad for 1100fps....a recipe for Federal straight wall hulls. These are minimum loads. Max load is 27 grains. Max pressure is 7800 psi. Every one of these shells is hand loaded and the powder charge weighed.).
For whatever reason, the shots, evidently, sound very loud. At the very end of the round that I shot with them (23rd shot) one of the range officers asked to see the shell, and asked me not to shoot them anymore (turns out he is also the club President).
It is no big deal for me not to shoot them anymore and yet....I am still disturbed by this censure.
Just venting, I guess.
Pete

[jaguarxk120]

From the sound of the report he may have thought they were loaded to express velocities. Many ranges restrict to use of high velocity shells because the shot will carry farther than the range drop out zone.

[darkgael]

From the sound of the report he may have thought they were loaded to express velocities.
Yeah. I am guessing that is what happened.
Pete

[zippy13]

Pete, my friend, I gotta go along with the others: The RSO suspected you were shooting boomers that might be dangerous. If you go to the range only once a year, they're going to think of you as a newbie. Range regulars are often very suspicious of newbies. They are known to pull some really bone headed safety violations.

I know you've gone to a lot of trouble and expense to load your brass hulls. Next time, you might approach the RSO first and tell him all about your loads, that way you won't scare folks when they see your brass beauties.

[darkgael]

Zippy: Thanks for your always sage comments.
If you go to the range only once a year,
I bring this particular SXS maybe once a year. I, on the other hand, am at this range once or twice a week year round. I had never met this particular gentleman before, however.
Pete

[zippy13]

If you hadn't met him, to him you were a newbie. ;)

[pbratton]

Take him a couple of rounds with the load specs and ask him to try them and give you permission to shoot them on the range.

[Virginian]

Did he say why? I would have asked.

[darkgael]

Did he say why? I would have asked.
He wasn't in the mood to talk and we were on the line with a bunch of fellows waiting. I will have to track him down.
Pete

[M4BGRINGO]

I got the third degree once for using reloaded shells with high brass. I opened one up and poured the shot out to show them. I can understand them not wanting to get in trouble with the neighbors, but there are better ways to deal with these type of issues. Yes, I was a newbie, first time ever shooting Trap. Shot there with the same guys for the next several months and a few thousand shells, they trust me now. :)

[Virginian]

It's only happened to me once, about 30 years ago. I said "Do you have a chronograph? Because I do." End of discussion.

[mete]

The terms "high brass" and "low brass " mean nothing today !!
In the past "high brass" shells were high velocity. The only way to prove your point is use a chronograph !
It can be very important on many ranges. We were once hit by shot at a sporting clays range .Turned out that a shooter was using high velocity shells ! Ranges often have restricted space so only low velocity rounds are safe.

[zippy13]

Ranges often have restricted space so only low velocity rounds are safe.And, there are the newbies who think "#7-1/2 maximum shot size" is a competition rule that doesn't apply to them. They haven't the slightest clue that the lager the shot, the further it goes, or what shot size numbers mean.

[BigJimP]

I've had the same thing happen ....when I had a few boxes of Remington STS Nitro shells....1 1/8 oz, 7 1/2's at 1300 fps ..../ they were legal loads ...but the range master, in a city where I was visiting ..... came out to talk to us on the range / and asked me not to shoot them there --- they were getting grief on noise from some of the new neighbors that had recently built some homes in the area..

.....and he was nice enough to let me buy a flat of shells from the club for the members price ...so I was happy to oblige him. It worked out for all of us ...

I suspect you can approach him and discuss it ...discuss the loads / noise / or whatever the issue is for him and the club.

[zippy13]

they were getting grief on noise from some of the new neighbors that had recently built some homes in the area..
Folks build on range land, right next to an active gun club and then complain about the noise... go figure. The previous neighbors, cattle, never complained.

[olddrum1]

SR 7625 is a pretty good powder to load. Little dirty but easy on the arm. My guess is with an all brass case it may be a little noisy. Probably someone said something. What ounce load you shooting in these cases?

[TheKlawMan]

Zippy, Sounds like the old Del Webb case where the cattle operation was forced to close down because Del Webb built tract homes and the buyers complained about the flies and smell. Del Webb had to pay the cattle feeding operation its loss for having to abate the nuisance created by "coming to the nuisance". It's a landmark 1970's decision that came out of, of all places, Arizona.

[M4BGRINGO]

We were shooting some really old shells the other day at my range and the first shot had confetti all-over the place. After the second shot I asked my friend where all the paper was coming-from. He said out of the gun!

I guess back in the day people used paper wads and that is what I was seeing. I am so used to plastic.........

[TheKlawMan]

I have got to make up some reloads full of confetti and slip them into one of a buddy's ammo boxes. I will use wads with deeper cups so I can put some shot in along with the confetti less he notice that they are too lite.

[BigJimP]

Not that I would ever do that to someone of course....:rolleyes: ....

but use the little paper dots ...that come out of 2 hole or 3 hole punches...( I hear, they load really well ) ...

make sure you match his hull type ...

and count how many you mix into his ammo ...( or its like the stinky easter egg that noone could find...showing up in the summer) ...

[zippy13]

I have got to make up some reloads full of confetti and slip them into one of a buddy's ammo boxesInclude some shot, or he'll notice the weight difference (or, worst case, stick the wad in his barrel). You could do a 7/8-oz load in a boomer shot cup. Drop the shell in his pouch (instead of in a box that he may not shoot that day) and you'll get to see it go off.

Thanks for the Webb reference. Our new neighbors weren't thinking if having us move, but they'd call the sheriff if a round went off a minute after curfew (10:00).

[M4BGRINGO]

Wow, with friends like you guys.................

Your friends will actually have a blast!:D

[oneounceload]

We had an old gent where I used to shoot that was a rad eccentric - to say the least. He would pick up ANY hull and use one recipe for everything. If the hull wasn't full, he would use toilet paper as filler.

NOW, this gent spent post WWII and through the 60's in Europe, so he acquired quite a collection of Purdey, H&H, other English BEST and a lot from small boutique makers in Austria and Germany. Nothing like seeing someone shooting a double worth $100,000 and seeing toilet paper coming out of the end.............:eek::D

[TheKlawMan]

make sure you match his hull type ...

That will be easy. We both reload Gun Clubs on MEC Sizemasters. The guy is picking up a new White Onyx this weekend and we are going to the patterning board together. I could slip some confetti bloopers in then, but I am mean and think I will wait until we head to the trap field.

Your buddy Dave should enjoy this or has he done it to you Jim?

[B.L.E.]

A low pressure load is not necessarily a quiet load. A high pressure low velocity load pretty much uses the first few inches of barrel to accelerate the shot and then the powder is consumed and the shot pretty much coasts the rest of the way down the barrel and when it exits the bore, there is very little residual pressure to make the boom.
A low pressure load that achieves the same velocity is using the whole barrel to accelerate the shot and there is still a lot of pressure in the barrel when the shot exits, making a louder boom.

Load those brass shells with 80 grains of 2fg black powder and you'll get about 1100 fps at the most but you will create a boom that makes everyone ask "what the heck did you just shoot!!!"

[zippy13]

...but you will create a boom that makes everyone ask "what the heck did you just shoot!!!"
The cloud of dense smoke should give them a clue. :)

[BigJimP]

I have not done it to Dave...it was a few years back .../......

..... Dave is very protective of his equipment ...he'd smell out that something was up ..../ and for the most part he shoots the old style Win AA hulls - that have been out of production for 15 yrs or more ...so I couldn't match them unless I got his wife into the act and stole some from his house ( which isn't a bad idea now that I think of it ) ...??? Have to give this some more thought ...