bulls eye shooters what type scope/ sights do you ues

[ronz]

indoor

[Old Grump]

indoor, outdoor, rim fire, centerfire, 50' or 1000 yards. All my bullseye shooting in competition has been with iron sights.

[ronz]

I though red dots would have been by far the most popular

[Old Grump]

We are talking target shooting here, deliberate aimed fire at known distances at a standard target. The 1 MOA red dot gives no advantage to aimed sight and if you have a 4MOA red dot it can be good for a fast shot at close combat ranges but useless on the firing line shooting competitively at targets. Two completely different exercises.

[springer99]

ronz,

For NRA or CMP indoor bullseye shooting today, you'll see 5 red-dots on the line for every "iron-sight" guy. I think that aging eyes have a lot to do with that.:D

[Casimer]

I use irons, but dots are more popular in my area.

If you're asking because you're having problems with iron sights indoors, consider using a small lamp/light (e.g. a flexible goose neck that you can clip to your box). Several of the indoor ranges that hold BE matches in my area aren't illuminated well enough to see iron sights. They become silhouetted. So my solution has been to bring my own light. But you want to find one that projects a relatively focused beam so that it doesn't interfere with other shooters.

[FlyFish]

For NRA or CMP indoor bullseye shooting today, you'll see 5 red-dots on the line for every "iron-sight" guy. I think that aging eyes have a lot to do with that.

My experience shooting in about 5 different Bullseye leagues here in New England over the last 30 years is that it's more like 50 to 1. Some guys drag out the iron sights every once in a while as an experiment more than anything, but I don't know a single person who uses them in serious competition. Sure, there are shooters out there who can score in the 290s with iron, but they are few and very far between - for the average-to-good shooter it's a huge competitive advantage. I agree that aging eyes are a big part of it - in fact, I think one of our big challenges as Bullseye shooters is to try to get more young people to take up the sport. The average age on my current team is probably late-50s, and that's not good.

[spacecoast]

For NRA or CMP indoor bullseye shooting today, you'll see 5 red-dots on the line for every "iron-sight" guy

That's the approximate ratio at our local outdoor matches as well. Even the few teens we have are already worshipping at the temple of the red dot. I must be an outlier. ;)

[ronz]

I shot in one 20 years ago and even back then almost everyone was using red dots
They cost a fortune back then compared to now
I start on a league on Monday I like the idea of using iron + I don’t need to buy anything
But also want to be competitive
I didn’t want to be sitting in second to last place because I didn’t scope my gun
But sounds like I should be able to be competitive so I’m going with iron
I have fixed sights and hit with a center hold but was thinking about painting them
Dark green back with a yellow front for better contrast
Another idea witch I think would be better is if I don’t paint the front sight all the way to the top so I would be able to use a 6 o’clock hold
And possibly going two toned on the front with one for slow and timed
What do you think on my painting ideas ?

[M4BGRINGO]

First (and only) time I shot Bullseye I had a .38 Special with stock iron sights and was shooting next to guys with .22's and Red Dots or Scopes.

Man was I out-gunned!

[glicerin]

From the age of 22 to 69 I've only used iron sights, but now (as a short-sighted person) I get the optometrist to make a right lens to focus exactly on front sight. Optical sights are not allowed on ISU(olympic style), PPC, or IDPA. have fun

[darkgael]

I see no difference between "red dot" and reflex. I have both types on my Bullseye guns and I am looking at a dot regardless.
I am surprised that there are so many iron sight shooters.....pleased but surprised. The best shooter (highest average score) on our team is an iron sight shooter - holds both distinguished pistol and distinguished revolver badges.
(He shot this yesterday indoors during a match. .45:
http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/PeteDoyle/KPtarget.jpg)

he 1 MOA red dot gives no advantage to aimed sight.....

I respectfully disagree. Iron sights require alignment of three elements - rear, front and target. Two of those are always out of focus. The Red Dot sight has only two elements, the dot and the target, both of which are always in focus.

Pete

[ronz]

I just sighted in my wife’s new buckmark with a reflex sight
I love it the reflex is so much easier and faster than with iron
With iron I can get good groups out to 50’ but at 75’ I’m all over the place
I don’t have target sights and that 25’ just kills me but with her reflex its no problem
I liked using her 22 so much I’m dropping out from center fire and going to go with a 22
The lgs where the league is has a 22/45 for $350 (threaded shorter barrel 4.5” with rails on top and under the barrel)
there are a few things I don’t care for with the 22/45 started a different thread on that http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=476071
A heads up cabelas has a bsa reflex sight 60% off for $40 http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Optics/Red-Dots-Lasers%7C/pc/104792580/c/104752080/sc/104526180/BSA-Optics-Red-Dot-Multi-Reticle-Sight/1286316.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-optics-red-dots-lasers%2F_%2FN-1100252%2FNs-MIN_SALE_PRICE%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104792580%253Bcat104752080%26WTz_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104792580%3Bcat104752080%3Bcat104526180

[darkgael]

With iron I can get good groups out to 50’ but at 75’ I’m all over the place
There may be something else going on there. Match targets are graduated/adjusted for distance; they will appear to be the same size whether at 50 feet or 50 yards. So....what you are seeing at 50' and 75' should be the same. If you are getting good groups at 50 then they should still be good, albeit larger, at 75'.
Pete

[tpelle]

Same is true for NRA/CMP Highpower rifle. The targets ave an approximately 12 inch aiming black at 200 yards, 18 inches at 300 yards, and 36 inches at 600 yards - 6 MOA, in other words.

Oh yeah, we shoot iron sights only.

[ronz]

I was shooting at the 75’ target at 50’ one problem may be that I have to use a center hold and the sight just covers too much of the target ay 75’
It did give me a good excuse to buy a new gun though :D
They run a spring and fall league by going with the reflex now will be a lot easier on me
And will have a lot of time to get ready to go with iron in the fall if I decide to go with 2 guns

[darkgael]

Ronz: Since you are going with the reflex sight this idea is moot but the 25 yard target would appear quite large at 50'.
As to the need for a center hold....if you are using fixed sights, then you may have no choice but with adjustables....six o'clock. Aftermarket adjustables are readily available.
About that painting idea mentioned earlier.....all iron sight shooters that I know, both Conventional and International pistol, want blackened sights. There are a number of ways to do that...the point is to get the sights flat black for the greatest contrast and least reflection. Carbon black.

Pete

[ronz]

I have a Springfield mil spec with combat sights standard dove in the back and pressed front sight
Are there any good sights that would work without getting it milled down to accept them ?

[darkgael]

You can find a variety of good adjustable rear sights for your 1911 at Brownells.
Pete

[45ACPete]

I believe the record aggregate at Camp Perry is still held by Don Hamilton--a 2668 with iron sights, if memory serves.

[darkgael]

The national record for the three gun aggregate is 2680-159X by Herschel Anderson. I don't know that it was shot at Perry but it was shot on July 24, 1974 and that July date suggests Perry. The 1974 suggests iron sights to me.
Pete

[paw080]

Hi Fellers, You should use any sights that you desire, if allowed of course.
Anyone can learn to shoot using open("iron") sights; you just need to see the front
blade clearly. The idea that most NRA Bullseye competitors can only compete
effectively with dots or scopes really cracks me up. Do not ignore the rest of
the world's ISSF pistol shooters. They all are mandated to use only open sights.

I'm 70 years old, I've been shooting bullseye off and on since 1972 using only
open sights. There are optical aids available that enable folks like me, with
terrible vision to see that front sight. The last several years I've been shooting
10 meter AP60 and 50 meter pistol(free pistol). I see no disadvantage to using
open sights vs dots, etc. The psychology and physical discipline is identical for
either shooting process. Good luck and enjoyment to all;

Tony

[paw080]

Hi Pete, you said:

[I respectfully disagree. Iron sights require alignment of three elements - rear, front and target.
Two of those are always out of focus. The Red Dot sight has only two
elements, the dot and the target, both of which are always in focus.

Pete]

I sorta disagree with your disagreement, respectfully of course. When using
open sights the only alignment is with the front blade and the rear notch.
the bull is completely ignored; the shooter's body stance including arm is held
on the aiming area, for most, it's sub-six. The bull can dance anywhere it will.

So you can see the dot and the "open sights" both have only two alignment
elements.

Tony

[kraigwy]

My goal is to become distinguished in pistol. EIC rules require iron sights on service pistols.

Until I reach my goal I refuse to use any scope or anything other then irons on any of my pistols.

That's just me. Others may have other goals.

[darkgael]

Paw080:
I sorta disagree with your disagreement, respectfully of course. When using
open sights the only alignment is with the front blade and the rear notch.
the bull is completely ignored; the shooter's body stance including arm is held
on the aiming area, for most, it's sub-six. The bull can dance anywhere it will
We are pretty much saying the same thing. IMHO you are generalizing a bit too much about the target. If it could "dance anywhere it will" and is not at least in the background of the alignment, then we might as well shoot at a blank piece of paper.
It is out of focus with irons (or should be) but the shooter had pretty much better make sure that that out of focus blob is sitting atop that nice clear front sight when the shot breaks.
Pete

[paw080]

Yes Pete it's up there somewhere, dancing around. I do practice
shooting at a blank sheet of paper quite often.

Tony

[darkgael]

Yeah...I had a friend who was a pistol instructor (passed away some years ago) who started his lessons with a blank piece of paper as a target. I believe that the exercise was to train the shooter to focus on the front sight as opposed to something like a bull that was downrange.
It works. It is a good exercise for anyone shooting irons.
Pete