Percussion cap questions

[Hardy]

" 11's fall off. There is a way to crimp them and of course roughing up nipples. "10's misfire too much. I hear that reannoctors are using 10.75 caps. After searching internet -most info is vague. Are they available? And(if so) Where?

WBH

[birdshot]

some brands of caps are taller than others. My ROA does well with Remington but occassionaly CCI fall off.

[mykeal]

"10.75" is often the 'size' attributed to percussion caps made by Dynamit Nobel, aka RWS caps; that's probably because they have the number '1075' (without the decimal point) on the label. They compare to CCI and Remington caps as follows:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/CapSizes.jpg
By the way, despite the three decimal places those numbers are not claimed to be highly accurate. Others have gotten different results, although the relationships between sizes and brands is preserved.

[Hardy]

I loaded a 61 uberti navy w/ 20grains goex. I had already cleared chambers w/#10's and replaced w/10's. they were seated and stored for 4 days. I fired 1 and the next 2 didn't pop. Anyway after those 2 did on 2nd go round. One would not. I pulled it off w/needle nose plyers and put a#11 on and fired it out. After cleaning I noticed bluin was a rainbow of colors. Those cci caps are hot but are not dependable for me.

[Rifleman1776]

Your best course of action is to replace the nipples with a standard U.S. brand. Like Treso. They will fit the caps properly.

[Andy Griffith]

Tresos are Spanish made. The Treso nipples are very good after trying them.

What year is your 61?

[Hardy]

Its 2 years old. And yes heard of those nipples--gonna order some. I saw a guy in the sventies break down his Rem- he soaked his nipples in everclear and never put oil on then but took a pipe cleaner and lightly coated the cylinder threads w/ A/1---I noticed nipples seemed to be sliced w/ cutting tool that had small and sharp burrs. He said that kept his caps from falling off. Ya'll do that?

[pvt.Long]

I use 10s on my colt and remigton 44s and 11mags on my dragoon. only problem I have is when the caps fall in the guts of the gun. If 10s misfire use a different brand.

[kwhi43]

Hardy, That Everclear comment reminds me about my ex-wife, but that's
a story for another place and another time.

[Hellgate]

The CCI & Remington caps are not equivalent in size. A rough order of size to fit any particular nipple (going from tightest to most loose):

CCI#10 smallest
CCI #11
Rem#10
RWS#1075
Rem#11

The CCI#10s don't fit any of my guns, they are too small.
Half my guns will take a CCI#11 and half will take a RWS#1075 but ALL of them take the Rem#10. The rem#10 is taller and easily flares as it is seated on a wider variety of cone shapes & tapers. If you have loose caps, just pinch them out of round and seat them but a proper fitting cap is best. Most of my ASM, ASP & Uberti guns have STOCK nipples that take the Rem#10. If not I get the stainless steel replacement nipples that fit the Rem#10s.

[Fingers McGee]

Tresos are Spanish made. The Treso nipples are very good after trying them.


Uh, No, they're made right here in the good ole USA by Treso, Ltd, which is the manufacturing division of The House of Muskets and is located in Pagosa Springs, CO. Treso uses Ampco™, a proprietary aluminum bronze alloy for their percussion nipples.

[Hardy]

Thanks guuys--I guess my wholesellers donmt carry tresos --gonna check into it. I also thought that roughing and scratching that i mentioned earlier might be dangerous since a sharp burr could ignite cap when placing. What do you think?

[kwhi43]

I chuck mine up in a drill and start with 320 and end up with 1500 grit
wet-dry paper. Mine look like they are chrome plated.

[Hardy]

Ok -- like I said- 10.75 caps don't seem to be available but in vague posts they are. It's like the twighlite zone . Are they there to be bought?

[mykeal]

Hardy - go back and read post #3 very carefully. 1075's are RWS caps made by Dynamit Nobel. Carried by many sutlers, including The Log Cabin Shop.

If you wish to carry Treso products, contact The House of Muskets via their web site: http://www.houseofmuskets.com/

[kwhi43]

Here's just one source for them http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=3722

[62coltnavy]

Geez, an extra $25 for shipping! Not something you want to buy mail order if you can avoid it! I'm lucky, I guess, one out of five gun dealers in town actually carries them. Never had a dud.

[Doc Hoy]

Shipping costs - The shipping charges of some of the mail order houses turns me off too. I would not want to be a small online retailer unless I really had a niche.

Squeazing caps - I have had one chain fire event in my life. It was in a 1851 pattern Sheriff which I was knowingly shooting with caps that needed to be pinched. I had good fitting round balls and schmootzed the chambers with bear grease. But the only caps I had with me were too big. This pistol shot fine through numerous rounds with the right size caps. But when I used the larger caps, I had a chain fire of the post battery chamber with the first shot.

My situation is not exactly like Hardy's since I knew my caps were oversized but shot the pistol anyway.

AND....I am not saying the pistol chain fired BECAUSE of the pinched caps. I will never know what actually happened.

BUT....I took from the experience the idea that pinching caps can permit a chain fire to occur from the aft end of the cylinder. So I don't pinch caps any more...ever.

[Hawg]

I've only tried this on one revolver but I've just capped one nipple at a time and never had a chain. Maybe other revolvers are different.

[Hardy]

Thanks guys

I'm going to look in to those caps. Maybe too expensive?

WBH

[ZVP]

If we are using the "stock" Nipples and want to try and modify them for best preformance, do we want to go shiney and polished, or rough?
It would seem to me that a rough texture would hold the caps in place better.
Thanks,
ZVP

[Hawg]

Methinks rough would make them harder to seat, seems like some folk have a hard enough time seating them to begin with with all the posts about second strike firings.

[kwhi43]

Thats right. I never have to strike them twice. The hand polished fit keeps
them on the nipple tight. Black powder redisue won't stick on a shinny surface
either. Been doing it this way for 50 years.

[Shotput79]

The #10s are to big for my 51 .36 cal Navy. I'm thinking about trying the Treso nipples on it. If they work out may put them on all my revolvers. Have to fix one revolver a mouth. Wife giving me a hard time about buying to many BP revolvers. Can you believe that, to many revolvers? I want a refund on the old lady. :eek: Only two ways I'ed ever shoot anybody. One if they were trying to brake in my house and #2 is if someone took the old wify, and tried to bring her back :D That women drives me :confused: Might be better off to wait a little while longer, and order all them at the same time. The last time I looked up the Treso nipples they were about $30.00 bucks per six. That would cost me about $240.00 plus S&H. Is it true that if you change to the Treso nipples you will be able to use #11 caps on your revolvers. That puts and end to having to order #10s anymore. Those things aren't cheap after you put the hazemat fee on them. Believe they were around $70.00 bucks last time I bought 1000 of them.

[arcticap]

Another option for American made nipples is Blomquist Percussion Works who makes customs nipples as well as all types of stock nipples for many retailers.
It's reported that his phone number has changed from the one listed on his website.
His nipples are said to be made of hard steel which have a fairly small flash hole.
He also offers some volume pricing. Any questions just ask him.

His working phone number is reported to be 317-706-0712.

http://www.blomquistpercussionworks.com/

http://blomquistpercussionworks.com/products.html

[AbitNutzToo]

Actually his number is 317-706-0712

The one on the web page is wrong and has been wrong for going on two years. He knows it...he just can't get it fixed.

I just bought some from him last week. His nipples are made of a a harder material that Treso's and they're also 3/16th's like Ruger's.

His design also uses the smaller ignition hole, like the Treso's.

[arcticap]

Thanks for the correct phone number.
I'll edit my original post to avoid confusion.
Are his nipples made to fit #11 caps?

[AbitNutzToo]

He told me on the phone that he sized his nipples using the RWS 1075. Which are more 11 than 10's.

I wouldn't hesitate to call him. There's nothing he doesn't know about the subject and he likes to discuss it.

[madcratebuilder]

I have several outlets local that stock CCI caps in 10 and 11. What I have done is dress all my nipples to take CCI #10's. Chuck the nipple in a drill, use a slow speed, some jewelery files. Finish with fine sand paper. Like kwhi43 said, the caps stay tight with the polished surface. You are modifying the diameter, taper and length.

Treso's are great if you have just a few revolvers. I didn't want to spend 1K to outfit my collection.

[Hardy]

Madcrate you are right! There is always a way to rework parts. Unfortunately new customers to B/P shooting feel blindsided to just the basics. it's hard to get a newbee interested. But, the ones that are always either used rem 11's or cci 10's. I've found that if your nipples have been degreased "11's are good. If you don't (take some thickness) off nipples then #10's are not reliable. Anyway -just looking for a cap someone can use without problems and not having to gunsmith. Well- I guess anyone who starts out in B/P revolvers and likes it -then they will have to do a little gunsmithing sooner or later. Right?

WBH

[zullo74]

Hardy,

I have 6 C&B revolvers. 1 has Treso nipples, 2 have after market stainless nipples, 2 have stock Pietta nipples, and the last one is a ROA with Ruger nipples. I use Remington #10 caps on all with NO problems. In fact I just bought 1000 more! ;)

[Hawg]

I've had a few Pietta's over the years and the only one that didn't take #10's was an 1860 Colt, it took #11's. I never had to change out nipples or dress them dowm. Maybe I was just lucky. I have a Rigarmi 58 Remington I bought new in 69. It takes #9 Caps which aren't made anymore but pinch fit 10's work pretty well. Yes it still has the original nipples.

[Hardy]

Well, I just don't know. I've never had rem #10's but maybe that is the answer. Thank yu.

I guess ordering caps and powder you have to buy a lot since you have to pay explosive fees. We always got Rem -11's. I ordered a case of 10's cci 2 years ago and haven't sold them all. I'm not sure Ellet Bros carry Rem 10's--but will check on it.

[Hawg]

I can get Remington 10's, CCI 11's and RWS musket caps fairly locally. I don't care much for the Remingtons but I use what I can get.

[kwhi43]

Caps have gone up. Powder Valley is now 41.00 a M for CCI. That's about
the cheapest. I just brought back 24,000 from Friendship last month. Cost
me 41.00 a M. They are not going to get any cheaper.

[ZVP]

I would have thought a rough finish would hold the cap on better, but I CAN'T argue with experience!
Thanks!
I have had good luck shooting with Remington #11's but I pinch em a little out of round and use a push-stick to seat them on the nipple. Don't have many second strikes needed by pushing the caps down.
ZVP

[kwhi43]

I will be shooting timed fire matches at Friendship in Sept. I have to have
total 100 % first strike fires. We have 10 min. for 10 shots .

[zullo74]

Sounds like PLENTY of time to replace a mis-fired cap to me! :o

BTW, Best of luck at Friendship. :p

[Shotput79]

Wow!! so much info. Thinks fellows :) I always used #11s on my first 1858 Rimmington. That revolvers numbers or letters in the little box on the right side makes it made in 1989. I ordered it new around 91. Found a chart on another site one of the fellows posted that is a lot of help in finding out when your revolver was made. I may ask him if its ok to post it here, comes in handy if you want to find out when your revolver was made, anyway that pistol uses #11s and they fit just fine. It was later when I bought my other models that I found out that I was going to need #10s I don't have a lot of revolvers but I have more than I'll ever shoot in one day. Three 58s Two 60s One Walker and Two 51s. It wasn't till I bought the .36 cal 51 Navy that I found out the #10s were to big for it. You have to pinch them on like you would have to pinch the #11s on the other models. That's when I ordered 1000 #10s. They work out fine on everything but the one .36 cal Navy. So I think I'll just replace everything so I can just walk in the store and buy #11s. Oh well no big dill, but you guys have been a lot of help. I'm sure there are others that will come along and find this info helpful as well as I do. Heck some want worry bout it at all, and just keep pinching the #11s on. To each his own. :)

[mykeal]

Italian proof date codes:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/DateCodes.jpg

Spanish proof date codes:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/SpanishProofDates.jpg

[ZVP]

Does anyone know if the oldtimers used Cappers as common tools?
If so, what type were they? Straight or the snail type.
I have notiuced that my straight line cappers slightly pinch the caps as they go on.
So many folks have Cap problems and it seems there is no way to generalize "use #10's etc." to help out. It's frustrating but hasn't been cured in the last decade so I don't see a real cure coming along any time soon.
ZVP

[Hardy]

I hate #10's. But I found out by luck if you use "the works" a type of windex product to clean your nipples " 11's stay on better. They fall off mostly due to oil.

[Poodleshooter]

I use #11s, and a Ted Cash snail shaped capper on my Pietta Remington.
Once I crudely filed/sanded the nipples down slightly, they took #11s very well.
As purchased from Pietta, they popped off at every shot. After modification, they stick quite well, and I don't get cap jams anymore.

[zullo74]

Hardy,

If your caps fall off, they DO NOT fit the nipples. You shouldn't have any oil on the nipples to begin with. Find a combination of cap size/brand and nipples and stop fooling around! :cool:

[Shotput79]

mykeal. That's the same type chart. Thinks for posting :cool:
I been using a straight line caper with my older 58 it works ok. don't work with the #10s. learned from others to use a little round wood stick to push them on the nipples. With the 58 Rimies extra cylinders is the way to go., works pretty good with the Walker to. Don't know about others but mine is easy to change out the cylinder on. Can't say the same thing about the other Colt models. The ones I have it's a pain to try to switch out the cylinders on them. So shoot six and reload.

[Hardy]

Zullo-- I used to have oil on nipples when I first started. I greased chambers and oiled gun too much. I said--if you degrease nipples they don't fall off. I'm sure you know that but not everyone knows what you seem to know. Actually I thought a 10.75 cap would be the answer to folks that get frustrated w/ this sport. This thread is too address problems -not to get smart and arrogant. Now you quit foolin around.:p
WBH

[Shotput79]

.:D

[zullo74]

Hardy,

If caps are too large for the nipples, they will fall off, oil or no oil. If you don't want advice, quit whining. I wasn't getting arrogant or smart with you, just trying to help you. But if you think you have the right answers, then you do not need help or advice from anyone. :confused:

[Hardy]

Zullo' I don't have all the right answers. Our customers either know all that is needed to know or they are completely naive. I do know that #11's won't stay on w/oil on standard(Pietta) nipples but I suggested "The Works" that seem to keep them oil free better than anything I used. At the beginning of this discussion I was trying to find a wholeseller that could sell me 10.75 caps that would help solve some frustrations to new shooters. I'm trying to make it easy for new comers. I would order some belgium caps and treso nipples but they are expensive and only seasoned shooters might want. I guess I'm just trying to make this a user friendly sport. And when the user gets and gains more knowledge and hopefully gets the bug, he'll move up. OK-I'm sorry I said you were arrogant. You were just trying to help. :):cool:

WBH

[Hawg]

RWS falls into the #11 size. The 1075 isn't a size it's just their number for them. Their musket caps are 1081. #10's fit most Pietta's best. I only had one that 10's didn't work on and that one took #11.

[Hardy]

Thanks Hawg. You answered my question. I did not know.

WBH

[ZVP]

I think everyone really tries to help out. some do it with light hearted jargon, some speak straight. It's all there to help ya!
My guns seem to work with pinched Remington #11's. I pinch em to be sure, it's a habit now.
I tried some RWS Caps and they fit pretty good but they were WAY soft and the fragments got into everywhere! The Remingtons seem to go bang and hang together best for me.
I think the stock nipples vary so much that it's a crap shoot!
ZVP