Cell Phone Data Theft? Civil rights intrusion?

[hogdogs]

http://nation.foxnews.com/invasion-privacy/2011/04/20/cops-pull-you-over-extract-your-cell-phone-data

Am I in the minority thinking this is a gross violation of rights? What will the officer do when I tell him to go pound sand when he asks for my phone during a routine traffic stop?

While i have nothing to hide... I also have nothing I want to show either!

Brent

[Patriot86]

You are not in the minority in thinking this is a gross invasion of privacy. That data has nothing to do with why an officer would be pulling you over with one exception. I can tell you exactly what this will be used for, they are going to use the GPS data to make it impossible to get out of speeding tickets. GPS navigation software can tell you how fast your driving these days, if there is a record kept there you go.


Photos of your family, messages, etc have nothing to do with traffic law. I would think that god forbid an officer stumbles onto a photo of you smoking pot, or shooting someone it would not be admissable in court if the officer forced you to hand the phone over.
If a DETECTIVE investigating you for a specific crime(Drugs, murder, whatever) wants that data and gets a warrant it is another matter all together.
I don't know the law in MI, but Here in IL I believe their is a "list" of acceptable speed enforcement devices and unless a device is on it any data collected by it alone cannot be used in court.


Michigan law experts, does the law allow for the use of such devices to prove or support that a driver is speeding?

[Kreyzhorse]

Am I in the minority thinking this is a gross violation of rights?

I don't think so by a long shot. There is zero reason that I would allow a LEO to download my cell phone data.

[Hunter2678]

If this becomes SOP, I can honestly say it'll be one of the first times I ever agree with the ACLU.

[Evan Thomas]

According to the CNET story (http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20055431-1.html) from which the article linked in the OP is taken, the ACLU has made a Freedom of Information Act request to the Michigan State Police for information about the devices they're using for this: "The MSP said it's happy to comply, that is, if the ACLU provides them with a processing fee in excess of $500,000."

Processing fee??? :eek:

The article says the ACLU is likely to sue if the MSP insists on the "fee." I hope they do, and I hope they keep pursuing this. It's not just Michigan and speeders -- the question of who has a right to cell phone data is a huge civil rights issue for anyone who uses one, which I guess is just about everyone these days.

[C Philip]

In the mean time, before the lawsuit is filed, you can put your phone in the glove box or out of sight in the car and say "I do not consent to any searches." Without probable cause the police can not search your vehicle unless you allow them to. A violation of this would be much easier to pursue in court than saying they took your phone data.

[Aguila Blanca]

Not all cell phones have GPS built in. But the police can use the calling records to show whether or not the driver was talking or texting at the time the officer saw him/her driving.

Of course, the police can get that information from the phone service provider without downloading all the data in the telephone, too. This is obviously a lot faster and easier for the police, but I fully agree that it's far too intrusive to be allowed under the Constitution.

[markj]

Without probable cause the police can not search your vehicle unless you allow them to

My friend a Hall county mounty in Nebraska says we will get a drug dog and walk him around the vehicle, dog goes on alert the car is then searched due to the dog alert. They catch a lot of drugs that way.

Drive into the county on I 80 you see a sign says traffic stop ahead drug dog in use, Then an exit that goes no where but the state patrol is there, no road blocks, just that little sign. :)

Cops are smart, dont mess with them or they will make you pay one way or the other.

We lost most of our rights in the late 60s and early 70s with the nixon crap went on. Anyone else remember that stuff?

[silentargus]

It smells like fishing for crime to me. "We know you're guilty of something, sir, we just don't know what." Unwarranted searches of any kind are a greater threat to society than any of the crimes they're intended to uncover.

Just about everybody carries a cell phone these days. Many people use their cell phones exclusively and don't even have a land-line telephone. Many more people use smartphones that contain detailed schedules, personal documents, web browsing (and the search histories that go with that capability), and all manner of other personal information that is nobody's business besides the person who the phone belongs to.

What's next, a law that requires every citizen to carry their GPS-enabled phone at all times so that it can be produced on demand to prove their innocence or guilt of unspecified offenses? :rolleyes:

[Nitesites]

Hmm. Penny for your thoughts? Not enough? How about a half mil? This is so very Orwellian. I suppose next thing will be MSP going door to door checking for papers.

[Rifleman1776]

This just has to be ruled unconstitutional by a court eventually.
As for refusing searches.....dream on. Many times if you refuse they will search anyway and/or hold you for hours and hours until a tow truck shows up and a warrant is obtained.
And the drug sniffing dogs will nail you anytime they are used. You may never have been within a mile of marijuana or other illegal drugs in your life but the dogs will still get you. It has been found that virtually all American cash, especially in denominations of $20.00 and larger, is tainted with drugs.
This, if true, has to be settled by the courts.

[Aguila Blanca]

My friend a Hall county mounty in Nebraska says we will get a drug dog and walk him around the vehicle, dog goes on alert the car is then searched due to the dog alert. They catch a lot of drugs that way.
Yes, and the cops won't admit it but a lot of dogs are trained to "alert" on cue from the handler.

But ... the dogs don't alert on cell phones. If a drug dog alerts, it may provide the appearance of probable cause for the police to toss the vehicle, but if they find a cell phone in the glove box it does NOT give them probable cause to hook up the phone and download your life.

[hermannr]

There is a suit in progress in FA right now about a couple of "drug" dogs that alert on every vehicle...It will happen soon where you are. They will stop the wrong person and search their car, and get sued

Most people do not have the money for suits like that, but some do, and will. What we need is a US district court judge that says, if a dog signals improperly once, it cannot be used as probable cause for a vehicle search and this nonsence will be done. Better yet, just do what Portugal did, and make drugs a medical, not criminal issue.

[BlueTrain]

Generally speaking, the police do not pull people over for no good reason. Not where I live anyway. Plenty of people do get pulled over for speeding, though not nearly enough. The solution is simple: just obey the law. It will amaze your friends and frustrate everyone else.

[Nitesites]

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

...Fourth Amendment, Bill Of Rights, Constitution Of The United States

[Spats McGee]

The automobile is the worst thing that's ever happened to the Fourth Amendment.

[SVO]

And this is a gun issue because.....?

[hogdogs]

SVO, Civil Rights infringement discussion is allowed here.

Brent

[lawnboy]

Originally posted by BlueTrain
Generally speaking, the police do not pull people over for no good reason. Not where I live anyway. Plenty of people do get pulled over for speeding, though not nearly enough. The solution is simple: just obey the law. It will amaze your friends and frustrate everyone else.

I second the motion.

I like the 4th Ammendment, but unfortunately it's normal use today is as a way to let criminals get away. It's been interpreted into uselessness. Or rather, the only use that it is put to anymore is a use that is against the best interests of the law abiding. Sucks.

[teeroux]

Phones also aren't just phones anymore they are wrapped up in everything we do. Schedules, finances, work a search of your phone can be the same as someone digging through your closet at home looking at financial and personal information.

[KyJim]

It's my understanding that cell phone transmissions can be stopped by placing them in special metallic bags or sealed up inside a metal container, like a paint can. Maybe we should start carrying our cell pones around in a paint can.

It really makes my head hurt to think a large segment of police might be doing this. It seems to be a clear case of an illegal search.

[pnac]

This just has to be ruled unconstitutional by a court eventually.
As for refusing searches.....dream on. Many times if you refuse they will search anyway and/or hold you for hours and hours until a tow truck shows up and a warrant is obtained.
And the drug sniffing dogs will nail you anytime they are used. You may never have been within a mile of marijuana or other illegal drugs in your life but the dogs will still get you. It has been found that virtually all American cash, especially in denominations of $20.00 and larger, is tainted with drugs.
This, if true, has to be settled by the courts.

Meanwhile. just lie back and enjoy it! :rolleyes:

[Standing Wolf]

We lost most of our rights in the late 60s and early 70s with the nixon crap went on. Anyone else remember that stuff?

Nixon and his boys did a lot to strip us of our civil rights, but he was neither the first nor the last: merely one of the most blatant enemies of the Bill of Rights.