Uberti cartridge cylinder soft as mush

[CaptainCrossman]

yesterday I took a 38 special caliber Uberti open top cylinder to my friend's machine shop, to machine down the O.D. for a project I'm doing- he expected the lathe to chatter when it went over the bolt notches in the cylinder

while turning the cylinder on that lathe, there was no chatter at all- he said "man is this soft- it hasn't been heat treated"- we were amazed how easily it turned in the lathe- it was like machining a piece of butter

this proves that the repro cartridge guns are soft as mush, just like the C-B guns

after seeing this I would recommend NOT buying any Italian make repro gun for the jacked-up new prices they are being sold at. They are not a good value IMHO. A $500 gun should have the proper heat treated steel. There are much better values out there for $500, such as a modern bolt action or lever action rifle made in USA with hardened steel, or modern single action revolver like the Ruger Vaquero, or a vintage made in USA gun. It is very disappointing to see this inferior soft metallurgy in a $500 gun- because these guns are much cheaper to make this way without the heat treating, yet the prices are right up there with a modern gun, or even higher.

example: I passed on a Ruger Vaquero SA NIB unfired at a gun show, for only $300, and chambered in 38/357- made in USA with hardened steel barrel and cylinder. At least 3x the gun of any Italian repro- and I could shoot BP cartridges in that just as easily, as any repro- with much better strength.

historically this has always been the case with BP C-B pistols from Italy, but in the past these guns were $100-$200 new, even the Walker only a few years ago was only $289

not $500.

$500 for a soft gun, is a ripoff, nothing more, nothing less. The only repro strong enough for heavy shooting, is a topstrap design, i.e. Colt Peacemaker, Remington, ROA.

from now on the only repro guns I will purchase at these hefty importer prices, will be stainless steel- the price is high but at least the metallurgy is adequate and correct

[olmontanaboy]

this proves that the repro cartridge guns are soft as mush, just like the C-B guns
Cap, this post does proves one thing to me,,,probably not what you might suspect.

[pohill]

Spread the word - Italian-made BP guns are terrible. Don't buy them, anyone, anywhere, anytime. They are so soft they are dangerous. They will blow up in your hands the first time you use them. Beware. Stay away. Danger!
And stay away from GOEX FFFG. Studies show that it makes your "boys" turn into ovaries. Danger! And Bore Butter makes you love Broadway musicals. Don't get me started on Remington #11 caps...
Great. Now, if everyone listens to this advice, the prices will drop, way down. Fantastic.:)

[olmontanaboy]

Great. Now, if everyone listens to this advice, the prices will drop, way down. Fantastic.
LOL:D

[Indian Outlaw]

Spread the word - Italian-made BP guns are terrible. Don't buy them, anyone, anywhere, anytime.

He has extended it to cartridge guns now.

[ClemBert]

Hey CaptainCrossman...how 'bout posting a couple of pics of that turned cylinder. I'd like to see what it looks like after removing some of the metal.

[ilbob]

could it be that BP revolvers don't need fancy heat treatment being as the pressures are as low as they are?

[Indian Outlaw]

I'm sure that's what the Italians are thinking -- and it saves them money. But he's now talking about cartridge guns. I have noticed that Uberti's cartridge cylinders are not as hard as, say, Ruger's. But they are a bit harder than the cap & ball cylinders (they would have to be, to withstand smokeless pressures over the life of the gun) and last through thousands of rounds of cowboy action shooting.

[Raider2000]

For those of you that have any of those defective Italian C&B & cartridge revolvers, send them to me for proper disposal, I have the facility necessary that will dispose of all of those pieces of junk once & for all.

[Indian Outlaw]

CaptainCrossman will be sending you a large box.

[Fingers McGee]

Quote Raider 2000:
For those of you that have any of those defective Italian C&B & cartridge revolvers, send them to me for proper disposal, I have the facility necessary that will dispose of all of those pieces of junk once & for all.

I'll take them as well.

Whisper Mode on:
Is it just me, or does it sound like the good Cpt works for Ruger/USFA/S&W/Colt???
Whisper Mode Off.

[mykeal]

I'm heartbroken. My 40 plus blackpowder gun collection, accumulated over 30 years and exercised regularly during those 30 years, is junk. How can it be that I'm so lucky not to have been maimed or killed by those soft, mushy, worthless guns? You'd think that after tens of thousands of rounds at least one would have exploded in my face (especially since several are CVA's), but no, here I am with no excuse for reconstructive surgery. Whatever shall I do?

[arcticap]

It's probably not all black and white, but I do appeciate the info. even if it's opinionated.
It's good that we can be made more aware that there's different choices available in the market place and that some of them may really be better than others. :)

[hillbille]

would also guess he must be a real good friend to do any machine work on a firearm/part in his shop. I can't get anyone around here to do any side business.;)

[B.L.E.]

Does steel really need to be hardened to withstand the pressures of target smokeless loads? Actually there is a pressure overlap between mild smokeless loads and hot black powder loads. Lyman modified cap and ball revolvers so that chamber pressures could be measured and recorded 10,000+ LUP with maximum black powder charges in a .36 using a conical bullet. That's aproaching and exceeding taget load smokeless pressures.

That soft steel is probably "strong enough" for the intended loads. Soft steel also tends to stretch or bend when it is overstressed instead of just snapping into like hardened tempered steels tend to do.

[DrLaw]

:rolleyes: I'm not saying a thing! :D:D:barf:

;)

The Doc is out now. :cool:

[tiberius10721]

I don't know enough about this subject to comment on the quality of the steel used to build my uberti 1858 remington replica ,but I all i do know is it is my favorite gun to shoot and most accurate of my pistol collection.35 grains of fff g powder is what I use and I dont ever plan on using conversion cylinder so Im not really worried about my gun blowing up!I bought mine during christmas for 260 at midway so I definatley think it was worth it.

[Raider2000]

Well if were talking about the steel in my Italian built Pietta NMA w/ the 5.5" barrel, it must be pretty tough because I surely don't baby it.

Some may remember that I bought it in 2007 & almost imediatly {sp} started tweaking it to become the conical launcher it is today.
Smoothed & Tuned the action.
Opened the nipple area to accept a snail capper.
Reamed the chambers from .4460 to .4510.
Opened up the loading window to accept the big .456 222gr. conical I shoot.
Modified the cylinder pin so that it can be completely removed from the frame.
Re-throated & Re-crowned the barrel.

I've probably put somewhere around 1000 shots through it since I reamed the chambers with most of em using this loading.
.456 222gr. Lee Conical lubed with 50/50 bees wax & crisco.
30gr. FFFG Goex.
#11 Remington caps.
718 fps.
254 ft. lbs.

So far it has survived everything I have put through it & all I have to do is keep her clean & lubed.

[long rider]

Hey cap, got to thinking that you no what you are
doing when you post a new thread, i think that you like
to get every one fired up, if you think that bp guns are
not worth spit so be it, but there are guys who like there
foreign made smoke poles like myself, you downing them
makes a bad rap for newbis, but i think you like the
reaction you get from the rest of the guys.:confused:

[FrontierGander]

had 4 1851 confederate navy .44s that i bought off cabelas. they sent me 3 replacements and they all went back. My very first pistol kept blowing the wedge pin out after each shot, hammer stripped out and then finally the pin that holds the cylinder shaft blew off.

first replacement - 6 shots and the hammer froze up and i could not unjam the thing.

second replacement the pistol would not cock at all

final replacement lasted 2 shots before it to froze up solid.

Its been 10 years now and i have not looked at ANY cap 'n ball revolvers since. American made or Italian made.

[long rider]

Maybe You Should Invest In A Pair Of Glasessssssss.

[Fingers McGee]

Quote FrontierGander
Its been 10 years now and i have not looked at ANY cap 'n ball revolvers since. American made or Italian made.

Thank you for refraining from purchasing C&B revolvers. It leaves more for those of us that appreciate them.

[FrontierGander]

oh no i actually loved the 6 shooter!! i've just been cautious ever since. I'd love to get another one some day but i'll do a lot of research next time.

Right now i could use a .54 or .58 cal single shot to keep my rifle company.

[arcticap]

I went to the gun shop last week and they got in about 1/2 dozen USFA Single Action Revolvers. They were all priced in the mid $700's and they had a beautiful finish. (pictures at the bottom of the page):

http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/single-action-revolver.asp

Then I noticed that one of the SA's was just under $500. It was a USFA Rodeo. The matte black finsh didn't look too bad in the dealer's case. It also comes in nickel as the Rodeo II, and since it's a USFA the action should be worth it:

http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/rodeogun.asp

[gmatov]

Arcticap,

Careful. The Cap'n has warned you that all them nickle guns are colored brass.

I don't understand a thing that the Gander says.

"My very first pistol kept blowing the wedge pin out after each shot."

"hammer stripped out and then finally the pin that holds the cylinder shaft blew off."

I don't know what a "wedge pin" is that blew out. I don't know how a hammer "strips". They rotate on a round shaft. I don't know how a pin that I don't know where it is that holds the cylinder shaft can blow off.

Because a steel is "free machining" does not mean that it is soft. Some steels turn nicely, but high tensile, some others are a bitch to cut, though they may be considered "scrap steel".

Then, too, the grind of the tool or the carbide insert you use will take an intermittent cut without telling you you got problems.

You could, of course go to Maraging Steel. Recent price is 178 bucks for 6 inch length of 1.75 D. 30 bucks per lineal inch, 1.75 D.

Overkill I THINK, for BP, unless you think that only them with a few spare bucks, you, maybe, should BE allowed to shoot even BP.

As to the "machinist, I were one, many years ago. I made MANY interrupted cuts, motor rotor spiders, 6 or 8 arm, and spun them at about 180 RPMs and got the finish they asked for, 12 to 36 inch diameter. Kids today in machine shops have no idea how to run machines, for the most part.

Computer tells them what they can or cannot do.

Machinists are cutting Inconel and solid nickle with no problem. A guy tells you this is really mushy steel and you come tell us that import cylinders are melted down tincans.

Steel can be very tough though relatively soft. HARD steel has a habit of fracturing upon impact, and powder bursting in a cavity can be considered an impact.

As some of the others, I wonder why you post here. You evidently HATE BP guns, your latest is an Open Top, a top strapless Colt, and we know you don't like unstrapped revolvers.

I would like to see you take a Smith 29 cylinder to that same machinist and have him take a cut off it. I would wager you would hear him say "Man, this is some soft steel."

You don't make tough steel 60 Rockwell. That is hard steel. Brittle. Breaks. Tough steel is in the 45 neighborhood, strong and ductile. A good knife is about 52, 54 Rockwell.

You are trying to scare people and I don't know why. Whom do you represent? You can't be simply a free range *******.

Cheers,

George

[Hawg]

You can't be simply a free range *******.

IMHO just a punk a***d kid gettin his jollies.:rolleyes:

[Indian Outlaw]

I started thinking that very thing a couple of days ago. That is, that he is a purveyor of flame bait.

[eastbank]

i shoot a roa in stainless and it,s a super bp revolver, but i miss a navy arms remington 58 in 44cal. that i sold years ago(i may get another in the future) it was just right for my hand and felt right. eastbank.

[DrLaw]

I'm reading, but I am still not going to say anything. I've been there and done that. :rolleyes: :D :D


(Though I suspect it is really Nancy Pelosi coming here to scare us away from guns). ;)

The Doc is out now. :cool:

[olmontanaboy]

(Though I suspect it is really Nancy Pelosi coming here to scare us away from guns).
LOL, What's she worried about, she consulted an expert metallurgist who told her that these imports wont shoot more than a few rounds and then melt in our hands anyway:rolleyes:

[madcratebuilder]

I don't understand a thing that the Gander says.

"My very first pistol kept blowing the wedge pin out after each shot."

"hammer stripped out and then finally the pin that holds the cylinder shaft blew off."

I don't know what a "wedge pin" is that blew out. I don't know how a hammer "strips". They rotate on a round shaft. I don't know how a pin that I don't know where it is that holds the cylinder shaft can blow off.

Because a steel is "free machining" does not mean that it is soft. Some steels turn nicely, but high tensile, some others are a bitch to cut, though they may be considered "scrap steel".

Then, too, the grind of the tool or the carbide insert you use will take an intermittent cut without telling you you got problems.

Thank God there is a voice of sanity in the wilderness.
I was questioning the stripped hammer (htf do you do that?), wedge pin???? and cylinder shaft????

I go away for a day and the Capt strikes again. This guy has to be a troll. Everything he posts is pure BS, and now he has a partner!

[ClemBert]

Why do you think I asked the Captain to post a picture of said turned mushy cylinder? I don't think he will post a pic because the mushy cylinder doesn't even exist so how can he take a pic of it? I'm sure he'll post that he doesn't own a camera or else he would have.

[arcticap]

The OP complained about 3 different things:
1. He complained about an Uberti .38 special centerfire cylinder that a 3rd party perceived as being mushy and not heat treated.

Now we all know that a centerfire cylinder is not the same as a C&B cylinder, but because Uberti also makes C&B cylinders, he then 2)., links the mushiness to those cylinders too.
Then 3), he goes on to say that Italian repro. C&B's are overpriced and not a good value.

this proves that the repro cartridge guns are soft as mush, just like the C-B guns

after seeing this I would recommend NOT buying any Italian make repro gun for the jacked-up new prices they are being sold at. They are not a good value IMHO.


example: I passed on a Ruger Vaquero SA NIB unfired at a gun show, for only $300, and chambered in 38/357- made in USA with hardened steel barrel and cylinder. At least 3x the gun of any Italian repro- and I could shoot BP cartridges in that just as easily, as any repro- with much better strength.

I think that we all understand that a .357 magnum cylinder just might be made with better steel than a C&B cylinder.
Sure he's comparing apples to oranges, but he's only trying to say "why buy a C&B conversion cylinder when you get a much stronger overall gun designed to shoot centerfire cartridges for almost the same price."
Sure it's all based on opinion and grey matter, but because the complaints are not just strictly about apples or oranges then the 2 separate cylinder issues become misconstrued.
He's seems to be more upset about the quality vs. cost of Italian repro. guns for cartridge shooting purposes.
He's not slamming C&B's as much as he is their new higher prices since he said that he'll stick with Italian SS.
His opinion is partly understandable.
BP cartridge shooting vs. strictly cap & ball vs. overall value for the money.
These are all valid considerations when buying a cowboy action gun.
So C&B shooters shouldn't take offense when the subject is mostly about shooting centerfire and the quality vs. cost of doing it with an Italian gun, repro. or otherwise.
It's a typical pro-American rant.

[Riot Earp]

"why buy a C&B conversion cylinder when you get a much stronger overall gun designed to shoot centerfire cartridges for almost same price."

Isn't the answer obvious? The answer is, simply, that I might want an authentic looking cartridge conversion and no U.S. maker currently offers one. Substituting a Ruger Vaquero, or whatever, is not going to satisfy the cartridge conversion desire, especially if I already own six Ruger Vaqueros. :)

[madcratebuilder]

"why buy a C&B conversion cylinder when you get a much stronger overall gun designed to shoot centerfire cartridges for almost same price."

Isn't the answer obvious? The answer is, simply, that I might want an authentic looking cartridge conversion and no U.S. maker currently offers one. Substituting a Ruger Vaquero, or whatever, is not going to satisfy the cartridge conversion desire, especially if I already own six Ruger Vaqueros.

Your damn right!

[grymster2007]

Broadly speaking: alloy steel, heat treated to 25 - 30 Rc (I think a reasonable range for a revolver cylinder) will machine quite easily. We mill and turn tool steels hardened to 60 - 63 Rc.

Did you test the hardness? Or are you basing your broad finding that Italian guns are crap on one highly subjective instance?

[FrontierGander]

wow you guys are amazing!! the pistols were the cabelas 1851 confederate navy .44's. Brass frame revolver.

wedge pin = a metal wedge that holds the barrel onto the frame of the pistol. I know you cant be that dumb and not know what a wedge pin is.

hammer did strip out, in fact i may still have the original. The hammer has a couple notches in it, kind of like a tumbler on a sidelock. These stripped/broke off clean. Cabelas sent me an replacement hammer free of charge.

They also sent me a wedge pin replacement but did no good. Fire one shot and i would have to search around because it never would stop coming out when fired.

i guess i'll have to find a blue print and label everything that went wrong with the revolver.

[arcticap]

It's like shooting craps! :D

[FrontierGander]

wow i did ya one better. i had the hammer, trigger and wedge pin. Take notice to the wear on the trigger and the notches in the hammer, they are cut sideways from wear. :barf:
Due to this wear the hammer would not hold half cock or full cock.
Parts list from top to bottom:

WEDGE PIN
TRIGGER
HAMMER
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/confed44001.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/confed44002.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/confed44003.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/confed44004.jpg
Trigger wear,
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/confed44005.jpg

[arcticap]

"why buy a C&B conversion cylinder when you get a much stronger overall gun designed to shoot centerfire cartridges for almost same price."

Isn't the answer obvious? The answer is, simply, that I might want an authentic looking cartridge conversion and no U.S. maker currently offers one. Substituting a Ruger Vaquero, or whatever, is not going to satisfy the cartridge conversion desire, especially if I already own six Ruger Vaqueros.

But some like CaptainCrossman are shooting conversions and reproductions for different reasons and have different expectations.
Some folks simply like the fact that they don't require a license, pistol permit or the red tape and can be bought by mail order.
Others shoot them because they're perceived as being inexpensive alternatives.
And some don't know why they want to shoot them at all.
Rightly or wrongly CaptainCrossman is voicing his opinion about some of the quality differences.
Not everyone realize the differences, hence there's often questions about the use of factory ammo.

Here's a thread discussing the Taylor/Uberti Conversion 1858's where it's stated that their .45 LC cylinder is harder than the C&B cylinder, yet still isn't as hard as the Kirst's 4140 steel.
And because the Uberti conversion frame is designed to handle the larger oversized .45LC cylinder, the Uberti C&B cylinder won't even fit into the frame to allow for a conventional conversion.
Someone bought one only to sell it because it couldn't be converted back and forth. Taylor's didn't make that clear enough.
These aren't important distinctions for everyone, but for some folks they are.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=438508&highlight=taylor+conversion

[FrontierGander]

obviously someone didnt know what a wedge pin was as they questioned it in a post.

But now you can see what a stripped out hammer and trigger look like. That more than likely was soft steel but other than the internal problems with the pistols, the first one shot extremely accurate.

[gmatov]

Gander,

Nah,

It ain't called a "wedge pin", it is called a "wedge", period. It is wedge shaped, it is not pin shaped in any way.

It does look like your hammer and sear are both too hard, glassy. OR, you have and I don't accuse you of it, although IF I WANTED TO, I could jump all over your ass for abusing your, actually abused it. Slipshooting, in other words.
.
If the pistol in question is under warranty, call and ask them to send you replacements. If it is out of warranty, you have to spend about 15 bucks.

Cheers,

George

[FrontierGander]

its been 10+ years since i owned it. i kept those parts figuring i could somehow make them work on my cannon. I ended up using some else on it and threw this in the ammo box. The 3 replacements though were horrible right out of the box. Cabelas admitted that they have problems with this revolver but they still choose to sell it.

[DrLaw]

Okay, I will jump in here now, as I have a question to help with diagnosis.

Gander, terminology nothwithstanding, did you take the gun apart when you first got it and do anything with it or have somebody do a trigger job on it?

I'll admit, I had a problem with the 'stripping hammer' wondering what in the world that was, but the photo shows the half-cock notch broken off and the trigger bashed or broken.

You got this about ten years ago, and from Cabellas, which I think was selling Pietta's at that time. I got a Pietta Remington from them, which has mainspring issues still and tool marks on the gun. At the time, I was not impressed. It is why I have not ordered another Pietta.

Was your gun a Pietta? That might be the main problem right there.

On the other hand, word is that the new Pietta's are on a par with Uberti. I have not seen one yet to know the difference.

The Doc is out now. :cool:

[madcratebuilder]

I was questioning the stripped hammer (htf do you do that?), wedge pin???? and cylinder shaft?

"wedge pin" is just called a "wedge"

"cylinder shaft", on a open top Colt it is called an "arbor", on a top strap revolver like a Remington it is called a "cylinder pin".

"stripped bolt". You can strip the threads off a bolt, but from the looks of your hammer and trigger I would say you broke the half cock notch and the trigger nose/sear. This happens from improper handling of the revolver, mainly lowering the hammer from half cock. When in half cock and you want to lower the hammer you need to go to full cock first, then lower the hammer. You hammer and trigger may have been brittle from improper heat treat.

Correct terminology helps.

[AdmiralB]

"wedge pin" is the pin that stakes the wedge spring to the wedge itself.

[long rider]

YOU got to admit, dont we go on:eek:,
if this goes on any longer we could make
a shakespeare novel out of this post.:p

[Mike Irwin]

Smith & Wesson didn't start heat treating for extra strength the cylinders on its .38 and .32 Hand Ejectors until the 1920 or so.

There are many that are still in daily, or near daily use (I have several).

As long as you don't push them with either hot hand loads or with +P ammo and stick with the original ballistics for the rounds they should last indefinitely.

[FrontierGander]

yes it they were Pietta's. The half cock notch did break off a little. the trigger itself actually wore in sideways and that too did break a small potion off. Even the full cock on position wore in at an angle.

When i first got the pistol it took it apart and cleaned it. everything looked great until parts started to break within the first 3 weeks. Once cabelas sent me the replacment parts i had a great time with it until the barrel wedge started coming out again after each shot. I acutally bent it slightly but the next outing was worse as the shaft that the cylinder rotates on, was pinned to the frame. Well that tiny pin broke and i called cabelas for an replacement and they said that never should have broke and that i need to send it to them ASAP and they will get me an replacement pistol. They ended up sending me three.

[pohill]

If you want to get really technical, Colt called the wedge a "key".

[FrontierGander]

lol exactly what i was thinking. We all have our own names for certain parts.

[arcticap]

If you want to get really technical, Colt called the wedge a "key".Thanks, I needed that! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2jKz1H-jKk&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fsaintjameskids%2Eblogspot%2Ecom%2F2009%2F04%2Fthanks%2Di%2Dneeded%2Dthat%2Djust%2Dfor%2Dfun%2Ehtml&feature=player_embedded

[DrLaw]

That explains it.


The Doc is out now. :cool:

[long rider]

A KEY""" PHEW THANK GOD FOR THAT.:eek::D

[madcratebuilder]

YOU got to admit, dont we go on,
if this goes on any longer we could make
a shakespeare novel out of this post.

Heck long rider, reading this beats the hell out of watching American Idol:rolleyes:

[olmontanaboy]

Heck long rider, reading this beats the hell out of watching American Idol

Mowing the grass beats the hell outa that:D

[long rider]

American idol,:eek:, i rather kiss a burros butt.:D

[Raider2000]

American Idol?
That's what happens when we sit around too long infront of those picture boxes right?

[Hawg]

American Idol
American idol
American Idol

Can we talk about something else please.:barf:

[FrontierGander]

bride zilla?

[CaptainCrossman]

TV ? there's only 3 good channels:

History Channel
Fox News
AMC (American Movie Classics)- really liked the spaghetti western week last month...


the other channels, they can have- it's all filler and advertising

[DrLaw]

As I was having breakfast this morning, I tried something.

Since I was eating oatmeal, which is similar to mush, I tried molding it into a cylinder. :rolleyes:

Unfortunately, when I put it all on a lathe to round it out, it fell apart. :eek:

I just don't see how Uberti can make any cylinder out of mush. :confused:

Did I miss something here??? :D

The Doc is out now. :cool:

[Mark Milton]

Meanwhile back in the real world, Colt itself did not start heat treating guns till between WWI and WWII.

This means the Colt peacemaker was soft as mush. The Colt 1917 was soft as mush too and the New Service.....

Yet we don't see many complaints.....

Gunsmiths who have worked on original 19th century guns tell me that while the old guns were better made, the new ones are made with better steels and are usually heat treated better.

[grymster2007]

Not a surprise. Even lowly 1018 steel (pretty "mushy" as far as steels go) has an ultimate tensile strength somewhere north of 60K psi.

[CraigC]

Colt itself did not start heat treating guns till between WWI and WWII.
You keep repeating this all over the place and it is entirely wrong. Case hardening is a form of heat treatment. Colt case hardened the frames, gates, hammers, triggers, bolts and hands. They were NOT "soft as mush". Colt began heat treating the frames to withstand higher pressures in the 1920's.

[mykeal]

He knows it's wrong. He posts erroneous information and inflammatory statements just to get people to respond to him. The more you respond, the more he'll post. Notice that he's buying these 'mushy' guns that are worthless. Just ignore him. He'll go away eventually.

[Nate1778]

Does "Firing Line" have a policy against "trolling", if so is it ever enforced?

[AdmiralB]

Colt case hardened the frames, gates, hammers, triggers, bolts and hands. They were NOT "soft as mush".

Seems like the OP referred to cylinders, which don't appear on that list.

Did Colt heat-treat cylinders prior to the 20th Century?

Case- or face-hardening is a form of heat-treatment - it (as the name implies) forms a hard but typically very thin layer on the surface - but it's done to reduce wear, not increase strength.

[long rider]

NEXT??:rolleyes: