More on being a predator.....

[bswiv]

I make a living cleaning fish, have for almost 30 years. Spent some time commercial crabbing, set a few gill nets and even owned a shrimp boat for a couple of years, which by the way is a great path to the poor house if you have someone else run it.

One of the things we sell in our fishmarket is live Maine lobsters. Usually the customers take them home alive, same with crabs and ocassionally eels too. Sometimes though we get a customer that wants a lobster but they just can not get past the fact that she, and yes it has always been women who've done this, has to kill her own food.

What the customer will do is ask us to kill them for her. Of course we do this. But if I have the chance I never miss the oportunity to needle them. My standard line is to tell her that while what she may see in the mirror every moring is a nice lady what every other animal on the planet sees is the most fearsom creature the planet has ever spawned.

That usually gets a smile and much to the credit of most of them a admission that it really makes no sense that they can't kill it themselves.

And one more thought........

My wife is kind of a Elly May, lots of animals over the course of 30 years of marrage. Everything from cats to emues, to nutrias, snakes and skunks, just about anything she can find she'll bring home. She does some of her own vet work, neutered sheep and goats and sown up a animal or two.

And when one needs to be put out of its misery she weilds a mean shovel.

Now for some this may sound harsh but follow me here. If you really love one of your aniumals, say a cat, and that cat has come to the point where it is suffering with no real hope for recovery what do you do? Do you load that cat up and carry it to the vet so the vet can give it a shot or do you do it.

I would argue that the one situation is harder on the cat and easier on you, the other being the opposite.

I'd say without reservation that it's far harder on a cat to be loaded up and carred to the vet, with all the strange smells and noises, not to mention the fear of car ride, than is is for it to be put down quickly in familar suroundings by loving hands. Sure it's hard to pull the trigger on a cat you've had sense it was a kitten but if you really care about the animal then at the very end of it's life you need to do the hard thing for you and save it all the unnecessary suffering of that ride to the vet.

Hard on you, easier on it..............

[Art Eatman]

That old devil-word, "responsibility". Having a vet kill my cat or dog is no different from shunning butchering my own meat in favor of having somebody else do the scut work.

For me, it goes back years ago to when my dog got to killing a neighbor's turkeys. My parents couldn't afford the cost of reparations. We tried all the known methods to make the dog stop. No success whatsoever. My dog, my duty, my .22. Sorta rough on a 13-year-old, but it's a lesson in life you never forget.

There's a heckuva lot of fun and good times in life, but nowhere is it written that it's 24/7/365. Too many people seem to have never learned that.

[hogdogs]

My momma always talked to the crawfish as she rinsed them under the sink in a playful voice including letting them know those little beedy puppy eyes weren't having any affect on her and then SPLASH right into the rolling hot jacuzzi they went!
Brent

[hogdogs]

Art,
I also had a dog I was about to shoot as a child for bringing home a dead hen from across the street. I was waiting for my dad to get home so I get a .22 round as I didn't want to shoot her with a .410.
In the meantime I walked my 11-12 year old butt over and told the "ol'Maids" that owned the chicken that I would gather eggs etc. to pay for the hen and that "I was gonna do the right thing with the chicken killer." She looked puzzled and said she didn't seem to be missing any hens and didn't notice holes into the chicken barn. So we went out and did a head count and inspection and no hole... Then the ol' Maid walked to a burn barrel and chuckled... She remembered that the day before she found a hen dead of old age and had put it in the barrel for next burn... Had I not manned up and admitted to her, I would have killed the best dog we ever had as I grew up.

Yes art... I am severly disgusted when someone tells me "I had to put fluffy down"... If in a debate mood or just a bit mischievous I ask "Hollowpoint or round nose"... or I say "Yeah I know what your feelin' I don't much like having to shoot a dog." Then 99%+ of the time I get "Heavens no I took her to a vet..."
:rolleyes:
(Expletive deleted), You ain't put no critter down... you hired a hit man to do what you couldn't.

Brent

[fisherman66]

Do you load that cat up and carry it to the vet so the vet can give it a shot or do you do it.

I put our pet cat down last year. That was much harder to do than putting meat on the table. The only satisfaction I have is that the cat's suffering ended and I didn't owe money to a vet in the process. I won't look down my nose at anyone who wants to pay to have that job done for them. I couldn't imagine having to do that to a dog at the tender ages listed above. Tough lessons.

[grymster2007]

I went up to visit my old dad once and he had put his cat in a cardboard box and stuck it under the tailpipe of his truck with the engine running. I asked him what the hell he was doing and he said it was sick and he couldn't afford to take it to the vet. I just looked at my ten year old brother standing there and said "ferchristsakes kid, don't ever get the sniffles or anything". :)

[shortround60]

The last pet I had was my American Bulldog. The B****rds that shipped him over to us when we relocated did something awful to have him behave the way he did towards us after he came. He was somewhat used to travel as I am a "contractor" and my family travels where ever the Government needs my skillset for the most part. We were in the Middle East and it was illegal to for a foreigner to own a firearm, so I had no other choice than to go to the hitman/vet office to have it done. I will never do like other sorry SOB's over there and take their pets to the desert to starve/dehydrate. That is about the most inhumane thing to do to an animal over there. I am with HD and would have manned up had we been stateside.

[hogdogs]

I do not blame a person for not taking on such a heavy burden, BTW, but just call a spade a spade...
In the old days... those that couldn't handle killing for food were gardeners and could trade produce for meat...;)
Brent

[Big Bill]

Our old Lab got hit by a truck when he was in the care of my son. The vet wanted over $800 to amputate his back leg, which we didn't have at the time. He was in severe pain and the vet wasn't sure that he didn't cancer as well. So, we decided to take him home and try and nurse him, but he was continually in pain. So, I took him on a ride out into the desert and found a nice spot. He licked my hand and looked at me with those big eyes, just before he died. Putting him down, was the hardest thing I ever did.

[jdscholer]

OLD DOG

I sit on the ground, cold and wet, she lies in my lap.

Eye to eye, hand to heart, we can't go back.

The gun at our side, rests, cold and dry.

My curse, her release. Oh how, oh why.

A BARK -- not hers, and her pain is over.

Blood soaks in the ground, the last of a life.

We sit on the ground, her and I.

Old Dog runs free,

I stay and cry.


jd

[HiBC]

I am not going to write about dogs,I will write about predator.

Everyone kills.Vegans kill.

There is the life of a seed in a grain of wheat.

God bless the farmers that feed us all,but clearing a field and farming it kills animals.

Turning open land into a housing developement kills animals the same as clubbing seals.

I have nothing against people who prefer not to kill.

It is OK with me if a person is most comefortable choosing skinless,boneless,bloodless chicken breasts wrapped under cellophane neatly at the grocery store.Have a delightful dinner.

But please,at least sometimes acknowledge,in the price per pound,you hired your killing done.

Hiring a killer is still killing,even if there's no blood under your fingernails.The arrogant position of looking down the nose at hunters is a lie.

Who does not know the difference between home grown tomatoes,puuled on a sunny day from the garden,and the grocery store tomatoes under cellophane?
Hunters know the same about meat.

When I kill an antelope,I sit a while before I get the knife out.

I know my place in the circle of Life.

What I want,for my funeral,is to be dinner for a bunch of coyotes,I hope they sing for me.And,I hope some Magpies get my eyes.

[fisherman66]

What I want,for my funeral,is to be dinner for a bunch of coyotes,I hope they sing for me.And,I hope some Magpies get my eyes.

Is that so nobody can pizz on yer grave?:eek::D

[HiBC]

It won't matter much,plant rhubarb.While you are *******,I hope it dawns on you where the bird **** from the sky that splats your forehead came from!!!:p
All in good fun,pard

[troy_mclure]

we bred dogs when i was a kid, i put down quite a few "malformed" pups.ive also put down a few pets hit by cars.
its never bothered me much, its something that has to be done.

[freakintoguns]

gee thanks guys, i got tears in my eyes thinkin back to my dogs, hitler and Max. both were great dogs and awesome friends. one died while i was at school as a child and the other while iwas at work as an adult, both times i cried my eyes out not only because i lost a good friend and family member, but because i couldnt be with them in there final moments to tell em thank you. i also i had no idea they were sick or old. thats what hurt the most i think. had i known they were suffering i would have put them down myself.

ive also been there when my friends 14 year old lab got rabies and he to put the ole guy down. one shot from his .22 and it was over. we were 16 at the time and i think he loved that dog more then he loved his parents. i dont knwo if id be able to do that if i had to.

[ZeroJunk]

Well, if she gets hungry enough she will kill the lobsters with haste. May utter some remorse with a burp later.

[fisherman66]

It won't matter much,plant rhubarb.While you are *******,I hope it dawns on you where the bird **** from the sky that splats your forehead came from!!!
All in good fun,pard

The ***'s rendered the first part incomprehensible from my standpoint .

I've asked that I be cremated with my ashes to be planted under a young walnut tree. With a bit o' luck I might get to be part of a custom rifle some day.

[ZeroJunk]

Sounds like the usual macho stuff. I've killed dogs and cats because they were ******* me off. But, I'll take a pet to a vet to be put down suspecting that the chance of some unnecessary suffering is reduced. I think I would rather be put to sleep than shot in the head. I care that much about my animals also.

[pitz96]

OK, I'll admit up till now, I've always taken my old sick or severely injured dogs to the vet to be euthanized. While I've culled newborn puppies that had birth defects, full grown dogs that have been my pals for years are another matter.

For those who shoot their own dogs, can I ask a really dumb question? Where in the head do you shoot? Head on with them looking at you (no way) or from behind, in the back of the head? Angle of shot? Honestly, I'd prefer doing the deed myself via .22 if I could be sure I'd shoot in just the right place to assure a quick clean kill, but I'd be upset if I messed up and am scared to try. Silly I guess, but there it is.

I have also to admit my shooting has been at targets rather than at animals, and my hunting has been limited to coursing jack rabbits with fast dogs (greyhounds etc.) so the dogs do the killing for me. Watching a sighthound or two work a jackrabbit or British hare is more interesting to me than just shooting the hare, as what I want to see is the contest between the dogs or between dog and hare. Still, I like reading about other people's hunting exploits, especially hog hunting with dogs: that must be a real rush!

[bswiv]

I think the point had to do with reducing the stress and suffering on the animal and how sometimes that was actually harder on the human.

Seems that most of the responces understood that. At least that's where it started................

[troy_mclure]

on larger dogs/animals, a .22 pistol to the base of the spine, facing in towards the brain.
on small dogs/cats a fillet knife to the same spot.

[BillCA]

Living in areas where cities blend together into a metroplex means it's hard to find a place - a good place - to take your animal for the last time.

In our cases, one Doberman we had for six years had a spinal tumor and the vet never let him wake up after they found it impossible to remove. I was about 18 and cried my eyes out over it. The other Dobie lived to 14 years, but her kidneys were failing. Once that was determined at the vet's office, with her almost blind and going deaf, we did the right thing to ease her suffering. Some nights I pray there is a heaven for our pets to enjoy.

Each pet I have had "put down", with the one exception above, I've been there to hold them and talk to them, feeling their life slip away from my arms. I don't care who you are or your life's story. Even as you know you're releasing them from pain, if you don't struggle to hold back the tears, you shouldn't get another animal.

It's one thing for the animal to be put down in an operating theatre when it's necessary. But I would never elect to "wait outside" while it was done. That's just too cowardly in my opinion.

[Art Eatman]

Yeah, city folks don't have much of a choice. Gotta remember that.

[pitz96]

Each pet I have had "put down", with the one exception above, I've been there to hold them and talk to them, feeling their life slip away from my arms. I don't care who you are or your life's story. Even as you know you're releasing them from pain, if you don't struggle to hold back the tears, you shouldn't get another animal.

It's one thing for the animal to be put down in an operating theatre when it's necessary. But I would never elect to "wait outside" while it was done. That's just too cowardly in my opinion.

I agree, and always hold my dog for the vet to euthanize. But I've heard that nowadays, there are quite a few vets who have a policy of not allowing owners to stay with their own dog during euthanasia or even hold their own dog for treatment: some sort of "safety" or insurance concern, supposedly. No way would I go to such a vet.

[ZeSpectre]

Now for some this may sound harsh but follow me here. If you really love one of your animals, say a cat, and that cat has come to the point where it is suffering with no real hope for recovery what do you do? Do you load that cat up and carry it to the vet so the vet can give it a shot or do you do it.

Where I grew up (farm country) you handled that sort of stuff yourself. Where I live right now you'd be up on charges so fast it'd make your head spin (to stay legal you have to use a vet...and pay the $$$)

Interestingly enough I remember the first injured animal I ever had to put down (when I was pretty young). A chipmunk that had fallen from a tree and broken it's back. It took me three tries to be able to pull the trigger and put a BB in it's head and I was absolutely heartsick for DAYS but at the same time I couldn't leave it there thrashing about and suffering.

Later on I learned how to separate myself some so that I could do the job that needed doing but Great Maker that's a hard lesson to learn!

[B. Lahey]

I'll take a pet to a vet to be put down suspecting that the chance of some unnecessary suffering is reduced.

Don't count on it. I've "put down" animals with the bluejuice ("Fatal Plus"), and they frequently seem to suffer quite a bit. Cats in particular. Dogs get the juice IV, and what they go through is usually limited to spasms and loss of bowel/bladder control as they lose consciousness. The SOP for cat killin' is to inject the juice into their abdomen (I guess the plethora of small veins and whatnot around the organs carries the poison around relatively quickly), but that can go ugly in a hurry. If the juice gets injected into the stomach or one of the other areas of slow-distribution, that critter is in for many minutes of terrible pain before death. You will see them shaking and moaning and in general looking like they are not enjoying the process at all.

A gunshot to the head or strike with a shovel is much more humane, if a bit messier. The reason they use the juice is for the comfort of the humans watching, not the comfort of the animal.

I would much rather be offed with a shot or strike to the head than that damn deathjuice. Faster, less pain, etc...

I've had gnarly head injuries before. Everything goes white and you hear a 20KHz tone (eeeeeeeeeeeeee). No pain. That is much preferrable to roiling pain as your guts get scrambled and shut down, going into spasms and crapping yourself as the vile toxin slowly does its work.

[Dragon55]

I shot an old sheepdog my wife had years ago... to put it out of it's misery. 3rd worst mistake of my life. I lost my very best friend in the world last year about this time. She was an old (17 yr) lab and I had her put down after considerable talking to the vet and I'm tearing up a little right now thinking about it.
Unless it's a matter of life or death I would never shoot a dog. It's been my experience with dogs that they are better friends and certainly more faithful than any human I've ever known.

[hogdogs]

I think the discussion of putting down animals is too far off topic and I think Art oughta remove those as they are surely fuel for the anti's fire...
Brent

[Dragon55]

I guess that includes the post about the dog that came home with the dead chicken.

[hogdogs]

Yes it does... even though it did not include putting the dog down rather it was about having the guts and manning up to responsible...
Brent

[ZeroJunk]

B Lahey, maybe you need a differnet vet. I took my wife's cat a few weeks ago. He had not eaten in a week and after fighting an auto immune disorder for 15 years was finally at the end. He gave the animal a shot in back leg and the cat was dead in a couple of seconds. No noise, no struggle, no nothing. Shoot one in the head and see what kind of involuntary muscle spasms go on and for how long.


But, I repsect your choice and am not going to take some high road one way or another in a difficult situation.

[Art Eatman]

We've sorta gone wanderin' with this one. It's pretty much an individual's views, for one thing, and circumstances beyond one's control for another. Let's give it a rest.

Art