Vote Libertarian!!

[twoblink]

http://www.harrybrowne2000.org/

Just wanted to throw up a link and a little pitch for my man Harry Browne.

I know some of you feel that a libertarian vote is throwing away your vote, but I disagree. If you keep voting the same-ol'-same-ol', you'll get the same results, Democan or Republicrat.

As for gun laws, here's Harry's stance.
http://www.harrybrowne2000.org/stands/guns.htm

Go Harry! I don't think he'll win, but just the same, I have to do my part.

Albert

[Coinneach]

(wince)

[DorGunR]

Again?...........why me Lord? :rolleyes:

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"Lead, follow or get the HELL out of the way."

[TheBluesMan]

:rolleyes:

[Will Beararms]

Yeah, vote for Browne and elect Gore so we can all become felons. Did Dick Cheney leave anything out last week in his clear pro-2nd stance? Do you think W did not know how he feels about it. Does the fact that W has stated more than once he would end the illegal attacks on legitimate businesses if he is elected mean anything?

With all due respect, I would be better off beating my head up against the wall until bleeding ensued rather than trying to plead from a platform of logic. Do we want another Perotvian Coup?

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited August 02, 2000).]

[madison46]

I WILL NOT elect Gore by voting for Browne. Browne is a VERY smart man, but right now, I want the half-good that will win vs. the whole-good that will NOT win.

Also, Cheney was VERY clear in his support of the 2nd on EVERY Sunday show and he never wavered. Poor Sam Donaldson (not really) - he is a joke in his questioning of the 2nd.

Anyway, NO.

madison46

[EricM]

I saw my first Harry Browne for prez commerical last night here in Boise, ID. Not exactly inspiring, but cool nonetheless.

[David Roberson]

With a great personal effort, I'm going to stay out of this one, as long as the uninformed libertarian-bashing that usually crops up on these threads can be kept out of this one.

[leedesert]

Here we go round the mulberry bush...
the mulberry bush..
the mulberry bush.
:rolleyes:
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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
NRA lifer
GOA
GSSF
KABA

[This message has been edited by leedesert (edited August 02, 2000).]

[ChrisL]

Shouldn't some folks from certain areas of the country be able to vote for BOTH Bush and Browne? Say, perhaps in places like Chicago or the entire state of Massachusetts? IIRC, they vote early and "often" there. :)

[David Scott]

What confuses me is that conservatives and Republicans say a third party vote is a vote for Gore, while liberals and Democrats say a third party vote is a vote for Bush.

Fact is, I don't like either of them. Is this the best we can do?

[org]

Shouldn't be too confusing. A Green vote is a vote for Bush, a Libertarian vote is a vote for Gore.

org

[LawDog]

Oh, geez. Why do I get the feeling that we've progressed so far beyond 'beating a dead horse', that we're now flogging a can of Alpo?

<pulling on Moderator hat>
Okay, keep it nice and civil folks.

LawDog

[Mikul]

The idea of voting libertarian reminds me of the decision one might make if he had to grow his own food.

Ideally, you might want to grow, corn, beans, asparagras, carrots, potatoes, etc, but you know that most of them don't grow well in your soil, and that if you lose 50% of your crops, you'll starve during the winter. So do you grow what you want, or do you stick with the corn and beans knowing that you'll live through the winter?

We should change the voting laws in this country to allow for us to vote for more than one candidate for each position. That way, you could vote for Bush, Keyes, and Browne. It would be a massive improvement over the current system.

Second... the vice-president should not be a person chosen by the presidential candidate, he should be whomever came in second in the election.



[This message has been edited by Mikul (edited August 02, 2000).]

[Ledbetter]

Not this time. Maybe next time.

[Jack 99]

This is well-trod ground here.

ChrisL has a good idea, though. Time for some right-wing voter fraud for a change! Vote both and we can all get on with our lives.

[twoblink]

Trust me when I say that I understand;

Let me rephrase "In an ideal world, will you all please vote for Harry."

Better?

Hmmm, I'm getting this strange feeling, maybe it's the burrito I had for dinner last night, but you people don't like Gore??? Now imagine that!!!

Albert

My favorite quote about Gore "Gore, what a waste of a perfectly good piece of cardboard."

[Keiller TN]

You have to take the gamble out of it by doing some heavy-duty organizing and pledge signing. Then you can see if you have the votes. Otherwise, it is just gambling. And, in this case, it would be a long shot.

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Alexander Solzhenitzyn:
"Freedom is given to the human conditionally, in the assumption of his constant religious responsibility."

[walangkatapat]

twoblink, Sorry, but I'm voting for Bush(last chance republicans) and if he gets elected and does the same crap his father did, next time it's Libertarian all the way

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"Gun Control is Only to Protect Those in Power"

[oberkommando]

Not this time. Maybe next time

twoblink, Sorry, but I'm voting for Bush(last chance republicans) and if he gets elected and does the same crap his father did, next time it's Libertarian all the way

Thanks for typing the replys above.

Voted third party once and we got klinton.

This is LAST time for repubs. Though it makes it easy to say last because if they lose this one Gore will trash the whole place. We will probably have little if any rights by the end of his four years, so its gonna be easy to go hard libertarian.

[DOCSpanky]

I LOVE BROWNE ALSO, BUT HE'S JUST GONNA DO THE ROSS PEROT TO US!

Yes, I know it was all in caps, because, I WAS SCREAMING FOR A LITTLE SANITY!!!!!!

:mad:WAKE UP! :mad:

[gitarmac]

The fact is Bush IS in favor of gun control. And Cheney said he had now problem with raising the gun ownership age to 21. If they think the masses want gun contol then that's what we will get. Most of the people I know think the second ammend. was just for "a long time ago". This includes all those religious folks voting for Bush. He also supports tax money for immigrants and giving money to project residents so they can get their "first home". I don't think he will be any different than Clinton so whats the point. The time to vote Liberatarian is now.

[Bob Locke]

I was going to comment, but thought better of it. So I offer a general statement instead.

We are each convinced of our own "rightness", and nothing that anyone says or does to the contrary is likely to have any impact. Vote your conscience, and sleep well at night. The only person you have to answer to about it stares back at you from the mirror in the morning.

[The Beez]

Our choices, basically, are these:

1) Vote for Gore, and infinitessimally increase the chance we will hasten our slide into tyranny and civil war.

2) Vote for Bush, and infinitessimally increase the chance we'll put off the tyranny for a couple of years, maybe.

3) Vote for the third party candidate who most closely reflects ones' views, and refuse to sanction either sub-division of the New World Order, or to be held hostage to the lesser-of-two-evils strategy. And whatever's going to happen is going to happen anyway.

Lousy choices, but there they are.

--The Beez

[EricM]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by walangkatapat:
twoblink, Sorry, but I'm voting for Bush(last chance republicans) and if he gets elected and does the same crap his father did, next time it's Libertarian all the way

[/quote]

Yeah right! You'll vote for the next republican to come along. Nothing to be sorry about it. Vote your conscience.

[Sub MOA]

I've said this a million times already so what's once more?

The FACT is either Bush or Gore will win. The ultimate question is can YOU accept a Gore victory? I can't. I do agree with Libertarians on some issues. Heck, who hasn't taken the Lib test and scored high? When they have a decent chance at federal office I won't hesitate to give them consideration. This year they don't. Vote W or break out the hankys folks.

[ArmySon]

I think the horse is now as smooth as apple sauce.

[fubsy]

Didnt we agree on a moratorium on this for a while?......so much for agreements. ....fubsy....

[glock glockler]

Just curious, what does the Libertarian Party think of NAMBLA?

[TheBluesMan]

:rolleyes:

[Frenchy]

What's really amazing is that if everyone voted with there heart, there conscience and there values, Harry would be the next President, but............. we're Sheeple!!

Frenchy

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Donnez-moi la liberté, ou donnez-moi la mort!

[walangkatapat]

EricM, Yeah right! You'll vote for the next republican to come along. Nothing to be sorry about it. Vote your conscience.

I am voting my conscience, but I also live in reality where two party system rules at this present time. If I have to vote for the lesser of two evils to get rid of the most corrupted justice department (RENO and Company) I'm going to do it. If Gore wins, this Country is over and the only way to get it back will be by a force of arms.

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"Gun Control is Only to Protect Those in Power"

[buzz_knox]

Four words keep coming into my mind whenever someone tells me they're voting libertarian:

Supreme Court Justice Reno

Sorry, folks. I can't live with that. Vote Bush or pull a kamikaze (using up precious resources for no gain while declaring you've achieved a moral victory).

And to those who think Brown could beat Gore in 2004 if he has a strong showing now, my personal belief is that if Gore is in office in 2004 and Brown is the least bit of a threat, Brown will have an "accident."

[Coinneach]

Glockler, are you freakin' serious? :rolleyes:

About them Soopremes... does the name O'Connor ring any bells?

[Westtexas]

don't...hit...reply...button...must not...must not...


Oh, well, couldn't resist :)

I'm not going to get into this issue again. I think we've got a good team in Bush/Cheney. I think we all now know where George W. is coming from in terms of the 2nd amendment. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I for one am voting for Bush.

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NRA Life Member
GOA
GSSF

[TAZ]

As disgusted as I am at having to say this, this country is not ready for a third party, especially the Libs. The more I think about my political leanings, the more convinced I am that I am a Lib. However, the chances of Browne winning in November are a trillion to one. Dont mean it cant happen, but I for one will not hold my breath. Gore will in my opinion certainly lead us further down the path to Socialism and as such I will do everything in my power to not let him get elected. When I vote for Bush, I will be voing my conscience because I will have done my job in stopping this country's slide toward what my family left behind. Before we can jam the gears into reverse, we must first slow and then stop the machine. Then we can begin the process of going back to what the founding fathers meant for us to have. If we try jam this counrty into reverse before coming to a stop bad things could happen. You must remember that it took generations to get us where we are now, we can not turn it around in a manner of months, or even years. Just as our rights have been deprived through a slow and barely noticable (to mainstream America) proces we must take the same path. We can get Libs elected locally much easier today than we can nationally. Take advantage of this. City council, county clercs, Sherriffs, state reps. Start slow and let the people begin to feel freedom at the local level and get the fever back so that next time we can get some Congress critter in. Slowly but surely is the only way to go.

Vote Bush and Chayne to slow, maybe even stop the decline. Vote Lib. in every local election possible so that the people of your community can taste freedom and then want more of it next election.

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"Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes."
-R.A. Heinlein

[EricM]

Some people think that a Libertarian running for President is a contradiction in terms. Most who think that are libertarians :).

For me it says a lot when Pat Buchanan leaves the GOP and goes from a very good showing to around 1% in most polls. He hasn't changed his views any from last time around.

The LP is too radical for most people and not radical enough for libertarians. Something about herding cats . . .

[ruger45]

As far as president goes I agree with the majority.
Although Im still looking for someone to take my bet that Bush wont take our troops out of any of the positions where the police the world for the UN.
But as far as senate and congresscritter reps
I think libertarian party is a great idea.
Pro-gun,against the war on people (drugs)
against US involvment in other countries much less the UN.
Who knows if a few republicrats lose theirs seats to some libetarians they may start to wonder id their falandering and continual compromise.
www.jbs.org (http://www.jbs.org)
leave the UN bring our troops home

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"those who sacrifice
liberty for security deserve neither"

[fubsy]

ruger45,

Dont feel bad no LIBERTARIAN took my bet with regards to Harry Browne. I believe he wont be elected President this time around, no one wanted to bet that he would.........the bet was for a new Springfield m1a......why would that be?..Interested?.....fubsy.

[This message has been edited by fubsy (edited August 06, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by fubsy (edited August 06, 2000).]

[Colombe]

It doesn't have to be all or nothing, for the Libertarians. Bush/Cheney get my vote this time, in the presidential election. I feel better about that since Cheney was chosen as the VP candidate.

But, except for a few Republican votes for people I really agree with, I'm voting Libertarian in all state and local elections, from here on out. They have a better chance beginning at a state/local level, proving themselves to those who currently see Libertarians as extreme.

[Dangus]

3 supreme court justices, we can't afford to screw around on this election!

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me

[Normalizer]

As a member of the Libertarian Party and a delegate to the state convention for 2 of the last 3 years, here are my reflections and personal opinions.

I've not only read Browne's books but met with him and talked to him personally on several occasions. He IS everything he represents himself as being and is not a hollow candidate or Perot'ish kook. I trust him to fullfill, or at least try to fullfill, his promises if and when he is ever elected to office.

Herein lies the catch.... "If and when". The Libertarian Party (LP) is the nation's 3rd largest political party, far outnumbering the Reform party in membership and elected officials. Why then have most people never heard of us? Money. We don't have the luxury of a billionaire holding the reigns and refuse to accept federal matching funds (subsidies) so are forced to campaign nationally on a shoestring budget. The LP will NEVER elect a presidential candidate as long as this is the case. We WILL however continue to elect state and local officials, and I feel this is the key to oneday getting into the whitehouse.

I won't bore people by going into campaign strategies but suffice it to say that I -PERSONALLY- vote for any true Libertarian I can find on the ticket, regardless of party affiliation, in state and local elections. Federal offices are just too costly to run campaigns in right now, without the financial backing and media attention needed, and I unhappily cast my vote for the lesser of the evils most likely to win in those elections. I have voted in every presidential election since 1988 (guess my age) and have ALWAYS voted for LP candidates, until this year.

I still haven't made up my mind who I will vote for but I do know what I want in the outcome - I want Clinton/Gore OUT..... My first choice is of course Harry Browne, a VERY close second would be Alan Keyes, but it looks like my next best hope is G.W. I'd rather have a friendly dog in my house than a mean one, both will ruin the carpets but you have a greater chance of avoiding getting bitten by the first kind.

If Gore get's elected and re-elected, and Hillary wins in NY, I -GUARANTEE- we will see the Clinton's back in the whitehouse in 2008.

SO.... I am supporting, both financially and with my vote, Libertarian candidates in all state and local elections, as well as Carla Howell in her race against Ted Kennedy (she is the only viable opposition so no harm can be done). For president I will (groan) vote for Bush IF IT LOOKS LIKE HE WILL WIN. If Bush falters, like his father, right before the election and the polls all point to a Gore presidency I will vote for Browne. I'll be able to vote my conscience without "throwing my vote away" in this scenario, as a vote for a loser is still a vote for a loser. If Bush is the projected winner then I am only reinforcing his win, not prolonging his loss.

But then again, in reality every vote for Bush is a vote for Gore, IF you would truly rather had voted "in a perfect world" for Browne (or Alan Keyes, Pat Paulsen, or Pat Buchanan).

That's the problem with today's political process, no matter how you vote you are voting for the lesser of two evils. Moderation in the face of evil is NOT a virtue, if more people believed it and backed it up with their votes we possibly could live in a perfect world.

[This message has been edited by Normalizer (edited August 06, 2000).]

[fubsy]

Normalizer,
Can you tell me what Mr. Browne's profession is? I've asked several times and no one has responded, perhaps you can help.
I also think you are not considering the fact that sometimes a vote is the lesser of three evils which could explain the Libertarians lack of success over the last twenty years or so. ....tks, fubsy.

[twoblink]

First, let's get something straight, there seems to always be references of beating a dead horse... What do you think Clinton does every night?? :-)

H Browne I think owned his own business.

How is it that the LP's are the 3rd largest party in the nation, yet the Green and Reform party gets more votes at the presidential elections???

As for harry browne, I don't know if any of you have read his books, but I just about fell out of my chair when I read his 30 day plan to balance the budget.

As for wasting a vote, I think the only time a vote is wasted is when it's casted for Al Gore.

like www.Userfriendly.org (http://www.Userfriendly.org) says today, most of the democrats seem to use the book 1984 as a guide for how to run the government.

I usually vote for the best man, and that man isn't Al Gore or Bush.

Albert

[EricM]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fubsy:
Normalizer,
Can you tell me what Mr. Browne's profession is? I've asked several times and no one has responded, perhaps you can help.
I also think you are not considering the fact that sometimes a vote is the lesser of three evils which could explain the Libertarians lack of success over the last twenty years or so. ....tks, fubsy.[/quote]

He's a financial advisor, and he's written many books.

[Seronac]

In reply to the comment below:
This is the way it was done until it was changed by 12th Amendment.

My thoughts on this thread:
Although my political beliefs are sort of a mixture of Libertarian, Constitutionalist and Republican (in that order), I can't seem to bring myself to vote for anyone other than a Republican. Why? Because I voted for Perot - 'nuff said.

Perhaps we need to give our money and local votes to the Libertarians or Constitutionalists, and our Presidential votes to the Republicans.

But, right now, with the UN looming over us like a hungry vulture, it's much too dangerous to vote third party and split the Republican vote - unless a single third party can get a majority of votes. What if the Libertarians, Constitutionalists, and Reformers merged?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mikul:

Second... the vice-president should not be a person chosen by the presidential candidate, he should be whomever came in second in the election.
[/quote]



[This message has been edited by seronac (edited August 07, 2000).]

[gitarmac]

seronac - If you are hoping george is going to save you from one world order and UN you are wrong, he supports those things.

Yes, there are supreme court justices up for grabs, thats why I'm not real big on a repub prez pickin' em. I don't belive in pro-life. I don't think people should be subjected to search and seizure! Just when did you think the current uncontituional practice of busting down peoples doors came from anyway! It was the war on drugs! I don't believe creationism should be taught in school! I don't believe in mandatory drug sentencing! I think the environment IS important! I'm no fan of Gore but Bush doesn't seem that different to me. I don't think it matters because 1. I think bush will be elected and 2. It will be the other groups electing him that he will be more beholden to.

[bullseye]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by twoblink:


Go Harry! I don't think he'll win, but just the same, I have to do my part.

Albert[/B][/quote]

You already are smart enough to realize Harry won't win, so please don't give a vote to a man who does have a chance to win - Al Gore.

[Normalizer]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fubsy:
Normalizer,
Can you tell me what Mr. Browne's profession is? I've asked several times and no one has responded, perhaps you can help.
[/quote]

According to the bio at his website:

Harry Browne was a successful investment advisor for 30 years. He has written 11 books that have sold more than 2 million copies. In 1996 he was the nominee of the Libertarian Party for President of the United States.

His books: How You Can Profit from the Coming Devaluation (1970), How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World (1973), You Can Profit from a Monetary Crisis (1974), Harry Browne's Complete Guide to Swiss Banks (1976), New Profits from the Monetary Crisis (1978), Inflation-Proofing Your Investments (with Terry Coxon, 1981), Why the Best-Laid Investment Plans Usually Go Wrong (1987), The Economic Time Bomb (1989), Why Government Doesn't Work (1995), Fail-Safe Investing (1999), The Great Libertarian Offer (2000).

[Normalizer]

0 <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by twoblink:

How is it that the LP's are the 3rd largest party in the nation, yet the Green and Reform party gets more votes at the presidential elections???
[/quote]

It's California mostly. By the time voting opens up in the western states the election has preety much allready been decided, so many people decide to cast their vote for an alternative as a statement.

I worked for a local cable access station in '92 going to voting precincts to get the final vote tallys, shortly after voting was started in CA our number crunchers were able to predict a Clinton win was unavoidable. If you knew, in a case like this, that your vote really didn't make that much of a difference you might throw it to someone else.

Nader beat Browne in '96 for these very reasons, if you broke down the voting by state then it was a fairly even wash for Browne nationwide, around 90% of votes for Nader came from CA at the end of the night. Might be a good tactic for a smaller party to concentrate on a state like this, much more effective financially than going nationwide.

[TheBluesMan]

107K

Closed.


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RKBA!
"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4
Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website (http://www.ofcc.net)