hand building a rifle.

[smenkhare]

could someone please explain to me, a complete noob, what would be involved in constructing (not assembling) a rifle 100% from scratch?
eg what equipment is needed, how to put rifling in the barrel etc.

many thanks in advance
Peter

[Jim Watson]

I don't think you could cover that in one book, much less an internet post.

Barrel making is pretty specialized stuff, most custom gunsmiths and small manufacturers buy their barrels instead of making them. But you can study it.

"Bill Webb's Rifle Barrel Making Machine" videos and booklet
Brownells 542-100-000

http://yarchive.net/metal/barrel_rifling.html

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/barrel_making.htm

It is a lot easier to build a single shot than a repeater. I don't know of anything on DIY bolt actions or autos except the CNCguns site below.

"Building A Single Shot Rifle Action" by Walter B. Mueller
Brownells 926-000-001

"Mr Single Shot's Book of Rifle Plans" by Frank de Haas.
Brownells 248-101-003

This guy will buy a gun, reverse engineer it, and build his own copy.
http://www.cncguns.com/

This fellow has done a lot of work at the hobby level, not up to whole guns, but a lot of work on existing firearms.
http://www.roderuscustom.tzo.com/

[jmorris]

Years ago I built a .50 BMG using plans from Maddigriffin, as Jim points out building the barrel requires very special equipment not found in your common machine shop. It’s not that big of a problem as you can get pre-chambered rifled barrel blanks from many manufactures (I used Walther precision in GA). This will also save you the cost of buying the chamber reamers (rough&finish) although you will need to buy a set of go/no-go chamber gauges to set head space (unless you have a precision grinder (.0001). For the rest of the rifle you will need a mill, lathe (must be able to thread), equipment for (proper) heat treating, TIG welder, measuring equipment and tools for assembly. If your rifle is to have a stock you will also need all of the wood working equipment as well stock duplicator, chisels, scrapers, rasps, sanders, etc. The same goes for finishing both the wood and the metal. Also needed is proper knowledge of how to use the above equipment (your not making bookends for the wife). If you haven’t figured out yet, it costs a lot more than buying one; however, I understand that’s not the point. Once you are done you will have a rifle that is not transferable (you can’t sell it) unless you also got your FFL manufactures license. As above good book to read over to get an idea of the amount of work we’re talking about is “Building a single-shot, Falling-block RIFLE ACTION” by Walter B. Mueller (Jim’s link is above). *** I just noticed your location, the most important thing your going to need is permission from your government (in writing). For the above project I contacted my local BATF office to make sure I wasn’t doing ANYTHING illegal, as the penalties are severe. I would imagine more so, in your case.

[Unclenick]

There is a home-built cut rifling machine, with photos, here:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/16/631.html#000013

Building a modern, high pressure cartridge rifle from scratch is going, at a minimum, to require a milling machine, a lathe, a rifling machine, a gun drill (or a lathe modified to serve as one), a heat treating oven, and tooling. A shaper for cutting ways, welding equipment, bead blasting equipment and finishing tanks would be a big plus. Then there is the usual gunsmithing gear like barrel vice and a press to hold it, barrel and action wrenches, and etcetera which have to be purchased or made. Even buying very heavily used machinery, I'd be surprised if you didn't tie up $20,000 just to be able to spend far more time hand-building a single rifle than would be worth the price of one in hours of wages lost. In other words, it is far less expensive to get a second job and buy a rifle with the proceeds. None of this addresses the skills required to use all the tools. It would be a rewarding educational experience to try, but not cheap.

Black powder muzzle loaders are another matter. They can be made with simpler tools. There are places you can go to take classes in forging the metal and other techniques. Even this approach, however, requires tools that will cost much more than just buying a kit for building a single muzzle loader in the first place.

[James K]

I seem to recall that there are folks in places like Afghanistan who make guns from scratch without much in the way of fancy equipment, but it isn't easy and the quality, to say the least, leaves something to be desired.

One point to remember in legally making a firearm from scratch. The law says YOU can make a receiver without a license. But you can't hire anyone else to do it unless he has a manufacturer's license, since he would be selling the receiver (gun) to you. There may be a point to which he can go and then you could finish, but that is something I would ask BATFE about.

Jim

[Scorch]

I'm sure that most gunsmiths COULD, if they chose to, make a rifle barrel. It is relatively easy. First, get a length of steel rod, stress-relieve and straighten it. Then, bore it dead center with no run-out. Then, ream it to finished bore size and polish the bore. Make a rifling spud with a bronze rod of the correct diameter with cutters set into the rod at the correct angle to cut the proper pitch groove. Push this cutter through the bore until your grooves are cut to about .001" depth. Shim the cutters up .0005" and repeat the cutting procedure. Repeat until the grooves are .004"-.006" deep. Index 60 degrees and repeat. Then index again and repeat until all your grooves are cut.

There, see? Easy. Except, if you want it to shoot accurately, it all has to be within .0001". And straight within .002" end to end. You will spend days or weeks cutting a relatively crude barrel in this manner. Just like that, you CAN build anything you want. But you need a lot of time and experience to make it happen, and you need a lot of time to do it right. Which is why most folks buy gun parts and assemble them into a custom rifle. It's a job, not a life sentence.

[brickeyee]

"Make a rifling spud with a bronze rod of the correct diameter with cutters set into the rod at the correct angle to cut the proper pitch groove."

The hard part is rotating the cutter while moving it through.
You do not use the cuting surfaces to guide the thing (they are not 'self guiding').

I have made a number of guns, and barrels are not worth the work.
Even the deep hole driling takes a lot of work (pressure feed lubrication being the first hurdle).

I made a short pistol barrel once using cut rifling (on groove at a time) just to say I did it.
It took weeks to get the rifling machine built and working reliably (and I only needed an 8 inch stroke).
I canabalized the setup for helical machining on a mill later.

Concentrate on making the action.
Falling blocks are a good start with many designs available.
"Home Shop Machinest" had one within the past 3-5 years.

[smenkhare]

One point to remember in legally making a firearm from scratch. The law says YOU can make a receiver without a license. But you can't hire anyone else to do it unless he has a manufacturer's license, since he would be selling the receiver (gun) to you. There may be a point to which he can go and then you could finish, but that is something I would ask BATFE about.

what's a batfe?

and i think the legalities might be just a little different here. :(

[Jim Watson]

batfe is the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives... in the USA. It regulates (and taxes, whereby the unusual combination of products) the manufacture and sale of firearms here.

In short, in the USA you may build a firearm (of a legal type) for your own use without license or payment of excise tax. But you cannot sell it.

Just what ARE the legalities in Oz? You would not be trying to get 'round YOUR government's restrictions, would you?

[tomh1426]

Theirs a bunch of stuff like this http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/
But I dunno how legal it is to build a gun at a Home Depot

[Unclenick]

I'd forgotten about the Afghanistani and Pakistani gun makers. Saw one in a film loading ammunition, or rather his kid was. Just scooping the powder up in his hand and pouring it from his palm directly into the case. Not precision loading, for sure.

I'm going to guess the receivers for those are forged by hammer and anvil from scratch. The lathes those guys use may well be pedal powered. In the early 90's I saw an article on a backwoods Philippines gunsmith making revolvers and doing his turning on a pedal-powered center lathe. He could make about 1 a week. I don't think he rifled the barrels at all?

Those guns and the Middle Eastern ones are a cut above a zip gun, but not a huge cut, in terms of metallurgy and reliability and pressure withstanding. Accuracy would not be a main feature of them. Nonetheless, I am humbled to be reminded not to be so quick to price a setup. I tend to subscribe to the notion, usually ascribed to Townsend Whelen, but sometimes to Warren Page, that "only accurate rifles are interesting." The reality is that some kind of gun can be made by anyone with a drill and some files and access to steel. Cheap cold-rolled steel can be made into a .22 RF or a lower power black powder gun. It never occurred to me to consider making anything less than a seriously accurate piece.

So, Smenkhare. What is it you want to build, exactly?

[smenkhare]

Just what ARE the legalities in Oz? You would not be trying to get 'round YOUR government's restrictions, would you?

of course not... at least not with intent.

I don't know the exact legalities but i do not that some people have built their own here so it must be legal.

but this post was intended just for the actual practical side, not the legal side.


uncle nick,
did want a bolt action, but a single shot would probably be easier. Self loaders are completely out of the question due to our laws.

[James K]

Hi, Scorch,

Nice to hear from a real barrel maker. Are your barrels available for sale and in what calibers?

Jim

[Scorch]

Jim-
I suppose I should have used one of the smiley icons to let people know I was being facetious.

[James K]

Hi, Scorch,

Actually you are right on the process, just that doing it is not as simple as telling it. I have been in barrel making shops and they do make it look easy, but it is hard to imagine it as a DIY project.

Jim

[Scorch]

Jim-
I worked as a close tolerances machinist for several years before I started a gunsmithing shop with a friend when I lived in Nevada. I did the machine work and bluing and built custom rifles with my partner for 4 years until we ran out of money, like many gunsmiths. I am aware of how hard it is to do all the things I said it takes to make a barrel. Like I said, all you have to do is follow the steps barrelmakers follow, and you can make your own barrel. A friend of mine actually made his own barrel for a 58 caliber muzzleloader. I did the machine work, and he cut the 1:54" rifling just as I described it. It took weeks to finish, and it actually worked, but I wouldn't have bet money on him in a shooting match.

[James K]

Hi, Scorch,

You are beyond me. I confess I never made (or even tried to make) a rifle barrel from scratch. As I said, I have seen deep hole drills used but never worked anywhere there was one, and don't have the least idea of how to set one up. As you say, few gunsmiths ever have to even think about making a barrel, since they are readily available from the gun factories and the large independent barrel makers.

I will share a story you might find amusing. For some reason, a large manufacturing company needed a piece of machinery that stood up on thin legs and used large amounts of cutting oil. The problem was turned over to the company tool room where they decided to drill out two of the legs and use them for the oil supply and return. After months of trial and error, their head machinist managed to drill holes through the legs, essentially re-inventing deep hole drilling. A friend of mine was shown the result, with considerable pride. He innocently asked, "Why didn't you just use old rifle barrels?" The machinist replied, "What's a rifle barrel?"

Jim

[Scorch]

Jim-
Good story.