PDA

View Full Version : Need help getting started with cowboy


hardnose
November 7, 2006, 06:06 AM
I shot cowboy stuff this weekend for the first time and would like to get started, but I have a question about the guns. Thanks in advance for bearing with me.

RIFLE: Is there advantage between the Winchester 92 varients, the Marlin 1994 and the Colt Lightning pump type guns? Is one faster to shoot than the others? Are the throws on the lever guns the same or does one have a shorter stroke than the other? Does the Marlin eject up or to the side (deflector)? What is the optimum Bbl length?

REVOLVER: Same basic questions on the Colt varients. Which gun might have a shorter hammer throw? Is a Bisely a particular advantage? What about the Schofields? How does the Ruger compare?

Taking money out of the picture, which would be the ultimate guns to compete with?

Jim Watson
November 7, 2006, 08:53 AM
Rifle:
The Marlin '94s are side eject, reasonably priced, functional out of the box and can be tuned up for even faster operation.
The Uberti '73 repros are not as strong as the Marlin, top eject, but are very fast and can be made faster, although there are now limits on just how much modification you can do in the way of "short stroke" conversions.
The Rossi '92 copies are decent guns at a good price but the top guns seldom use them, the actions are strong but not as slick and not as ameniable to improvement.
Winchester 94s mutated into pistol calibers are only fair.
The various Colt Lightning pump copies seem to be works in progress, with some debugging still to do. I saw a guy Sunday have to put his up on the first stage and shoot all day with a lever gun.

The 20" barrel "short rifle" seems to be the most popular but you will see everything from 18" to 26" and sometimes even 30".

Sixguns:
There are two guns to seriously consider. Colt clones and Rugers. The Colt clones are handier; even the New Vaquero is a heavier gun but not as big as an Original Vaquero or Blackhawk. But the Rugers are hell for stout, with fewer weak points than faithful Colt copies. Schofields, cartridge conversions, etc., are for the real enthusiasts who are willing to go to some more trouble.

Cost no object - Codymatic or other super tuned '73 and a pair of well set up USFAs.

Reasonable equipment - Marlin and a set of New Vaqueros. Which can be gunsmithed as you get good enough to appreciate a few percent improvement.

Caliber .38 special. Most modern Cowboys don't like to get kicked, although there are the Warthogs who like recoil and shoot the big guns.

Oh, yeah, you gotta have a scattergun, too. The entry level gun is a Stoeger double barrel 12 ga. Kind of coarse but can be worked on. The top guns shoot '97 Winchesters or Communist Chinese copies of same with a peculiar but fast single loading technique. Most shoot the Winchester "featherlite" Low Noise Low Recoil shell, or handload something similar. Shoots about like a 20 ga.

Me?
Winchester '92 .44-40, Colt SAA .44 Special with .44-40 cylinder, Cimarron Model P .44-40 modified to look and shoot as much like the Colt as possible; old Verney Carron 12 ga double.

sundance44s
November 7, 2006, 09:57 AM
I`ve got the Marlin 1894 cowboy limited in 45 LC ... i shoot black powder and subs in it and ... the reciever takes down easy for cleaning .. heard others can be a real pain in that dept .

vpjack
November 8, 2006, 01:35 AM
The basic set up is about what Jim said. Pros and cons across the board.

Rifles the most common barrel leength is 20in followed by 24in than the rest

Winchester 92's or rossi clone PROS about the least expensive, light weight, very strong action, a real plus if you think you might take it hunting (thank you JMB) reliable. CONS rough out of the box, can be real sensitive to ammo length,and D/T the angle feed can jam because of ammo. not as fast as some others, if you get real good you can outrun it. This is the action that is the hardest to work on in the cowboy game, it can be a real PIA to take apart and put back together.

winchester 66 & 73 basicly the same action the 66 being the brass frame and the 73 steel. PROS these are generally considered to be the fastest rifles in cowboy especially after some action work they can be as smooth as ball bearings on glass, combined with a short stroke its hard to beat, simple action easy to work on, is highly favored by the black powder shooters for this reason. Lifter action much less likeley to jam on you. CONS can cost up to twice as much as a 92, they are heavy, the action is not as strong as the others, though generally this is meaningless with cowboy loads.

Marlin PROS this is a strong fairly simple action has a side eject so you won't end up with brass sitting in your hat can be about as fast as the 73's CONS not quite as reliable as the above.

Winchester 94 CONS generally considered the worst of the levers in the game not very smooth, diffacult to to do a lot of work to. This action was designed for real rifle ammo and does not adapt to pistol rounds well. PORS this is usually the least expensive rifle you can get and its a made in the USA real winchester and they aren't making any more.

Colt Lightning and clones. not ready for prime time yet. most all of the makers of these are havint teething problems. PROS ferry cool guns so you get lots of style points, when working right can be very fast CONS lack of reliabilitybut when the manufacturers get them right they should make a good main match gun.

Pistols
Basicly you have Colts & clones and Rugers the rest are not seen a lot till some one really gets into the game and is really shooting for the fun of it. These would be the Schofields, Remingtons, and everything else.

Colt and clones PROS this is the gun you think of when you think cowboy it's been around over 100 years and still works. most people like the grip, a simple proven design. THE cowboy gun Cons it's a 100+ year old design it was never designed to be treated the way we do today, so there can be reliability issues, cost a real Colt is about the most expensive single gun in the sport, the clones range in price from 300 to 1200 bucks.

Ruger PROS built like a tank, one of the strongest pistols in the world. the New Vaquaro is not quiet as strong as the earlier models, out of the box the New Vaquaro is as smooth as most folks need. working on them is very easy, and with the transfer bar system it adds another layer os safety also have the option of a smaller gun the single six in 32H&R mag not making them anymore but can still be found at a reasonable price great for folks with small hands like women and children.CONS they are heaver than the colt style guns and the grips are somewhat bigger more so for the old Vaquaro's but the new ones are still a little bigger than the colt

this is a simple breakdown of the guns you asked about. the best advice is to go to matches let the folks know that you are interested in seeing diffrent guns and cowboys will trip over themselfs handing you guns to try. Try every differnt one you can to see what works best for you befor you put any money into them. But don't worry as you get into the game what you think you need will chang and you'll but more. I know I now have 3 sets of pistols 3 rifles and 4 shotguns

enjoy

FRANK1669
November 8, 2006, 02:21 AM
OK you got some great advice already My 2 cents worth What costume you going for- B western you have to have 40 cal or larger

I shoot 38 spl 44spl and have used 45 LC in pistols Find a dealer that hopfully has differnt Calibers and barrel lenghts to see which you like.

I had to have Remmie 1875 clones 5.5 inch barrels - they are sidelined I now use ruger new model Vaqueros ( i had failures on both my Umberti clones with fewer than 1000 rnd through them ) the company sent me replacement parts at no charge put they still went down Oh the italian clones are all umberti just sold to different importers EMF, Cimmeron, and whoever else I forgot

The Marlin is smoother than My Rossi But I already Had It

Last but not least get yourself the best reloader you can afford It cost me about $40 to reload 500 rnd of 38 spl Cowboy Loads Or buy factory at $20 for 50 rnds
I would get your Pistols first At my club Most people will let you borrow a rifle or shotgun with out any problem Ask to try some of the different guns etc

Check out what other people are using in way of leather etc the right holsters and shotgun belts will buy our lose you a lot of time

All that said Welcome to CAS

hardnose
November 8, 2006, 07:20 PM
Thanks for the great replies. After some minor drooling, I think I'm going to find or order a Codymatic in .45LC..... just haven't decided on the bbl length, but I'm leaning toward the 24" gun. For the revolvers, I guess I would go with 5 1/2" New Vaqueros in .45LC. Already have a shotgun.

I can't quite get my head wrapped around the whole costume thing. I think I would feel kinda silly walking around looking like Tom Mix at first. Quite a transition from jeans, sneakers and a ball cap. Have to think about that one.

vpjack
November 8, 2006, 08:45 PM
Great choices on the guns, actually very close to what I shoot, and wait till you get ahold of the Codymatic, they are unbelivable. As to caliber might I be so bold as to suggest going with the .357, OK, it's not a real old west round, it is cheaper to shoot, to reload, and generally has less recoil. The only place I see a real use for a .45 is in the catagories that require them. As you seem to have diffaculty wrapping your head around the costumes these would not be what you sound like your looking for as they are very costume oriented. Speaking of costumes, just change the tennies for boots put on a long sleeve shirt and a cowboy hat and your ready to go. You don't have to dress up all that much. just casual dress as seem out west today. For barrel length try to handle a 73 in each length to see what works best for you. I'm sure if you go to a match there will be folks there that will let you handle pretty much anything you are interested in.

For all sorts of info including the rules go to:

www.sassnet.com

hope to meet you some where down the trail

Jack aka Vest Pocket Jack